(April 12, 2013 at 4:40 am)enrico Wrote: So........who give the animals the instinct?
Santa?

Instinct, like all evolved traits, is a result of natural selection. Individuals displaying a new useful trait in the phenotype are more likely to reproduce. Such alterations occur because the replication process is sensitive to environmental variation. Of course almost all replication errors, (mutations), don't result in useful change.

(April 10, 2013 at 5:04 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Actually what you brought refutes (non-intelligent) evolution!!!

Tell you how...................

Salmon or Eels find their ways back to the same pond they were born, across seas even sometimes wet land or mud

The method is not important but what is important is the data!
The data of the position must come from an outside source, it cannot come from inside the animal

Uh, yeah. But that's not god; as usual, there's a perfectly rational explanation. It's magnetic fields in this case, most likely. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/0...ic-salmon/

Quote:That is a big difference between human and animals
God guides animals by supplying them with this information
on the other hand humans need to learn from (other humans)

Oh look, a baseless assertion. Would you care to support this with literally anything, or should we all just take you at your word?

Quote:A non-intelligent evolution (if it ever happened) is impossible because those data need an external intelligent source (God) to feed them into the animal system/brain to utilize.

Or just magnetic fields and odors. Did you even look for an alternative solution before declaring yours to be perfect by fiat?

(April 12, 2013 at 4:40 am)enrico Wrote: So........who give the animals the instinct?
Santa?

So is that how everything gets its attributes, as a gift? How did rocks get their hardness? How did summer days get to be warmer in the northern hemisphere? How did the Walrus get those tusks? I guess they were just regular seals until some genie sent them a gift? What a weird idea.

(April 12, 2013 at 5:39 am)GordonHide Wrote:

(April 12, 2013 at 4:40 am)enrico Wrote: So........who give the animals the instinct?
Santa?

Instinct, like all evolved traits, is a result of natural selection. Individuals displaying a new useful trait in the phenotype are more likely to reproduce. Such alterations occur because the replication process is sensitive to environmental variation. Of course almost all replication errors, (mutations), don't result in useful change.

I tried to go well behind this physical reality.
It is true that creature have to adapt to the particular reality in which they are living but i am not talking about this.
I am rather talking about how a particular creature get in a particular body.
When a kidney need to be transplanted into a different body first of all the doctors will have to find out if the recipient will be ok with that organ or it will reject it so they will have to do some research and only then proceed with the transplant.
In the same way when a creature (soul or spirit) will have to be reborn will have to be reborn in a particular body which will be in tune with their spirit.
In other words it is not a body that will be determinant in shaping a new creature similar to herself but is God that decide the best medium in which to put a particular soul with a particular body.
If the mind is not developed enough then it will be driven by instinct and therefore will end up in an animal body, if on the other hand it will be developed enough will end up into a human being body so according to me your analysis only deal with the physicality which in no way can answer where the mind or instinct come from.

(April 13, 2013 at 5:45 am)enrico Wrote: I tried to go well behind this physical reality.

But once you go beyond this physical reality, you enter whichever realm you'd like to enter, with whichever rules you'd like it to have. I get the impression that anytime a theist is confounded by a lack of physical proof, he turns to the 'non-physical' or 'immaterial' to maintain his belief system. But I don't think that they define this in any consistent way. Once you go beyond the observable and provable, you are entering the fanciful. And it turns out to be custom-tailored. Imagine that!

(April 13, 2013 at 5:45 am)enrico Wrote:
If the mind is not developed enough then it will be driven by instinct and therefore will end up in an animal body, if on the other hand it will be developed enough will end up into a human being body so according to me your analysis only deal with the physicality which in no way can answer where the mind or instinct come from.

Bit of a monumental flaw in your logic here, which is that you haven't provided an answer to that question at all. See, unless you can actually demonstrate this soul thing, or the method you've described for what god does with it, then all you've done is make an assertion. Anyone can do that, it doesn't make a word of what you've said true. And this "beyond physical reality" stuff is just a cheat so you're not held accountable to standards of evidence, and unfortunately for you most of us here simply won't buy it.

Gotta love that "according to me," part though; I expect it would be much easier on you if you can dictate the terms of the entire argument beforehand, slanting them in your favor, but that's not how this works either.

The thing that makes humans human is the fact that we are God seeking, we have an intrinsic desire to return to our source, this awareness differentiates us from animals, when we deny it we basically are just animals. The point that we developed into humans is when we first became aware of and sought God, we then developed and progressed. Some people want us to regress and even want to be considered just another animal.

(April 13, 2013 at 8:53 am)StatCrux Wrote: The thing that makes humans human is the fact that we are God seeking, we have an intrinsic desire to return to our source, this awareness differentiates us from animals, when we deny it we basically are just animals. The point that we developed into humans is when we first became aware of and sought God, we then developed and progressed. Some people want us to regress and even want to be considered just another animal.

We are animals, dude. We're organisms, sharing a planet with other organisms. And you'd better actually support your baseless little assertion about god seeking there, before you start telling me what makes me human, okay? One of my biggest pet peeves around here is being told what I believe.

(April 13, 2013 at 9:55 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 13, 2013 at 8:53 am)StatCrux Wrote: The thing that makes humans human is the fact that we are God seeking, we have an intrinsic desire to return to our source, this awareness differentiates us from animals, when we deny it we basically are just animals. The point that we developed into humans is when we first became aware of and sought God, we then developed and progressed. Some people want us to regress and even want to be considered just another animal.

We are animals, dude. We're organisms, sharing a planet with other organisms. And you'd better actually support your baseless little assertion about god seeking there, before you start telling me what makes me human, okay? One of my biggest pet peeves around here is being told what I believe.

I didn't say that we're not animals..I said that we have an intrinsic capacity within us that takes us above being simply an animal, in fact a perfect example of it is not following instinctual behavior. We can be simply an animal if we choose to do so, many people do. If you like to be thought of as simply an animal I have no problem with that.

(April 13, 2013 at 10:13 am)StatCrux Wrote: I didn't say that we're not animals..I said that we have an intrinsic capacity within us that takes us above being simply an animal, in fact a perfect example of it is not following instinctual behavior. We can be simply an animal if we choose to do so, many people do. If you like to be thought of as simply an animal I have no problem with that.

One might argue that our ability to reason- and fantasize, in the case of religious belief- arises from our animal instincts and behaviors, and are in fact entirely natural processes. I've seen no evidence that they are divine in nature.