(April 25, 2013 at 8:20 am)Consilius Wrote: People in the Bible are weird. The thing is that we interpret the Bible based on the culture of our Western democratic society. You'd be surprised how a lot of the crazy stuff that goes on in the Old Testament can be justified by basically good morals found in ancient Hebrew culture.

lolololololol

Thank FSM we do - I wouldn't want to interpret the Bible based on any ancient culture that thought slavery was good and women had to be sequestered and rape was just dandy. We might go back to thinking those things were great!

The problem with religion is it keeps holding on to ancient books and premises that society has evolved so far past that it makes you people laughable.

(April 25, 2013 at 8:23 am)thesummerqueen Wrote:

(April 25, 2013 at 8:20 am)Consilius Wrote: People in the Bible are weird. The thing is that we interpret the Bible based on the culture of our Western democratic society. You'd be surprised how a lot of the crazy stuff that goes on in the Old Testament can be justified by basically good morals found in ancient Hebrew culture.

lolololololol

Thank FSM we do - I wouldn't want to interpret the Bible based on any ancient culture that thought slavery was good and women had to be sequestered and rape was just dandy. We might go back to thinking those things were great!

The problem with religion is it keeps holding on to ancient books and premises that society has evolved so far past that it makes you people laughable.

That's truely the sad thing; A lot of people in the 21st century still do think those things are great.

(April 25, 2013 at 8:23 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: That's truely the sad thing; A lot of people in the 21st century still do think those things are great.

I would bet a lot of the little money I have that *all* of them are religious jerk offs, too. Not a secularist to be found in that group.

Why wasn't I born 3 thousand years ago, when I could do some god-sanctioned raping and killing??

(April 25, 2013 at 8:20 am)Consilius Wrote: People in the Bible are weird. The thing is that we interpret the Bible based on the culture of our Western democratic society. You'd be surprised how a lot of the crazy stuff that goes on in the Old Testament can be justified by basically good morals found in ancient Hebrew culture.

On the contrary; people in the Bible are typical for their time. That is to say, there wasn't anything that set them apart from anyone else, which is inconsistent with following the rules and laws of a perfect and morally just being. The same deity who thrashed the Egyptians about like a rag doll and dropped the Red Sea on an entire army suddenly found that his almighty hands were tied when it came to managing the behavior of his chosen people. I mean, you'd think that a law saying "slavery is wrong" would be easy to introduce to a people who knew the pain of slavery all too well!

(April 24, 2013 at 2:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I suppose it would be useful to explore the limits of the term (or our usage of it) before waffling on over it. Can something be "wrong" without being "sinful"? Can something be "right" while simultaneously being "sinful"?

Good point, but I think it deals more with each individual's view on "sin," whether they believe in it or not.

(April 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm)TosinAsLeader Wrote: So I have always wondered this and would like some insight. G-d created the world in seven days (symbolically) and he may have used evolution to create. The thing that I can't seem to understand is the scenario with Adam and Eve. We all have heard the story of them eating the forbidden apple, that Satan tempted them to do, and then sin was 'born.'

Ok, so whether you believe in the word 'sin,' or not, lets just discuss this at a general meaning. So was sin really born? From what? G-d perhaps or some other cosmic fixation that goes back to G-d? Would that then make G-d imperfect since He created something that made Him have to send His Son to die for the "sins," that He created? This just doesn't make sense. Regardless if he is imperfect or not, I still choose to believe in G-d, who is more perfect than I can ever be. Your thoughts anyone?

Sin isn't a thing, there for there wasn't an actual birth of sin. Sin is anything the goes against the expressed will of God. In short sin is Choice. Choice was apart of the plan from the beginning as witnessed by the tree of knoweledge planed in the center of the garden. If God did not want us to have a choice then the only thing that was identified as a sin would not be placed with in our grasp.

So why do we have choice? (Not the greek philosphy of Free will, but choice.) to choose whether or not we want to spend eternity with him or not. Unfortunatly the mere act of be placed in a position to choose disqualifies us from being worth of an eternity with God. Enter Christ and the sacerfice He made. Now we can choose and have our choice count. So if we want to spend an eternity with God in Heaven the attonement Christ offers allows us to be washed clean of our 'sins.' Allowing us to be found worthy to be with God for eternity.

(April 24, 2013 at 2:55 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Either way, I encourage you to keep questioning like you are, that's a good sign. Don't give religious ideas a free pass just because you believe in them, keep being intellectually honest. You seem pretty grounded, so I don't necessarily want to be mean to you, but I find your reasoning for believing in god flawed; just because you can envision a being that's better than you doesn't entail that this being existed. Nor do I think you can choose your beliefs, but that's a whole separate kettle of fish.

Your right, but that doesn't mean "G-d," doesn't exist either.

Can you clarify by "I don't think you can choose your beliefs?"

Thank you for the well given advice. I did as you said and think AF is possibly the best forum I have sign up on.

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(April 24, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Strongbad Wrote:

(April 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm)TosinAsLeader Wrote: So I have always wondered this and would like some insight. G-d created the world in seven days (symbolically) and he may have used evolution to create. The thing that I can't seem to understand is the scenario with Adam and Eve. We all have heard the story of them eating the forbidden apple, that Satan tempted them to do, and then sin was 'born.'

Ok, so whether you believe in the word 'sin,' or not, lets just discuss this at a general meaning. So was sin really born? From what? G-d perhaps or some other cosmic fixation that goes back to G-d? Would that then make G-d imperfect since He created something that made Him have to send His Son to die for the "sins," that He created? This just doesn't make sense. Regardless if he is imperfect or not, I still choose to believe in G-d, who is more perfect than I can ever be. Your thoughts anyone?

Here's one thought: why the f-k don't you sp-ll out the na-m of the deity you b-lieve in?

Here's another one: although you christians like to think you coined the term, "sin" originated long before the bible was written -

Quote:Then there is this ancient Mesopotamian prayer, which predates not only Christianity and Islam but also Judaism:
“O my god, who art angry, accept my prayer; O my goddess, who art angry, receive my supplication… Let my sins be forgiven, let my transgressions be blotted out. Let the blah blah blah...”

If one did not know, he could easily think that it came from one of the books of the Bible.

A strong sense of the supplicant’s sinfulness is palpably evident here. This is a very Christian sentiment indeed, but – as the above excerpt shows – it did not originate with Christianity. The prayer was written more than two thousand years before Christ began preaching on the shores of the Sea of Galilee.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/n...invention/

No need to be hostile. It's just a sign of respect and has become a habit, that is all.

(April 24, 2013 at 8:51 pm)Strongbad Wrote: Here's one thought: why the f-k don't you sp-ll out the na-m of the deity you b-lieve in?

The more observant of Jews don't either. They have a lot of funny ideas about words and their power (hence, Kabbalah) and the name of God isn't supposed to be written down. Why a Christian would be doing this is beyond me.

(April 25, 2013 at 2:15 am)Consilius Wrote: If a good being creates free will for his creatures, he has to create a way for them to disobey him (sin). Man has no free will unless he has the option to turn against God (sin). Then, God used Jesus Christ to get us back on track, even though we still have the option to go against God (sin).

I think I see your point because light can't exist without darkness?

Still doesn't make sense that countless years went by and no 'bible,' was available before and after Jesus, until later years.

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(April 25, 2013 at 1:52 pm)Drich Wrote:

(April 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm)TosinAsLeader Wrote: So I have always wondered this and would like some insight. G-d created the world in seven days (symbolically) and he may have used evolution to create. The thing that I can't seem to understand is the scenario with Adam and Eve. We all have heard the story of them eating the forbidden apple, that Satan tempted them to do, and then sin was 'born.'

Ok, so whether you believe in the word 'sin,' or not, lets just discuss this at a general meaning. So was sin really born? From what? G-d perhaps or some other cosmic fixation that goes back to G-d? Would that then make G-d imperfect since He created something that made Him have to send His Son to die for the "sins," that He created? This just doesn't make sense. Regardless if he is imperfect or not, I still choose to believe in G-d, who is more perfect than I can ever be. Your thoughts anyone?

Sin isn't a thing, there for there wasn't an actual birth of sin. Sin is anything the goes against the expressed will of God. In short sin is Choice. Choice was apart of the plan from the beginning as witnessed by the tree of knoweledge planed in the center of the garden. If God did not want us to have a choice then the only thing that was identified as a sin would not be placed with in our grasp.

So why do we have choice? (Not the greek philosphy of Free will, but choice.) to choose whether or not we want to spend eternity with him or not. Unfortunatly the mere act of be placed in a position to choose disqualifies us from being worth of an eternity with God. Enter Christ and the sacerfice He made. Now we can choose and have our choice count. So if we want to spend an eternity with God in Heaven the attonement Christ offers allows us to be washed clean of our 'sins.' Allowing us to be found worthy to be with God for eternity.

So God (again, it was a habit) didn't create sin? Yet, I thought he created everything Genesis 1:1)?