A coherent argument is simple: you cannot demonstrate that a single one of your assertions is true, and since most of them contradict reality and are not repeatable, the combination of these two factors is a fatal flaw.

(May 5, 2013 at 7:44 pm)A_Nony_Mouse Wrote: So the question for Christians is why some primitive god right out of a B movie demanded blood sacrifice and then committed suicide to make it happen.

He didn't...

(May 5, 2013 at 10:05 pm)Ryantology Wrote: So, tell me, why did God make it necessary for death to pay for sin?

Because He said so?!?

Quote:Was he not capable of doing this in any less barbaric way?

We truly have no idea of the consenquences sin has on everything. Our relationship with sin is graded on a curve. Meaning our exposure to it has raise our tolerance of it to the point where we have no true perspective of what even our smallest sin really does.

It's like growing up in a society where one Race or one Social economic class of people are constantly being subjected to distain, fear or hatred. after a while lashing out against one of these people becomes almost a right or privliage. So when the government orders these people into a Territory, Getto, Reservation, district, or consentration camp it means little to nothing to the people living in that society. Often times it takes a out side perspective to see how horriable and perverse a given society has become, all the while the people living in said society think themselves to be 'moral people.' That is what self righteousness does. It tells you you are basically a 'good' person because you do not involve yourself in extremes. When in truth because you are in a constant state of sin you can never truly have the perspective you need to see yourself as you really are...

After all Did the Nazi war crimminals see themselves as evil people? No the loved their country and saw what they did as something like a cleansing that needed to happen in order for their country to be strong. Just like in every other Major Super power had done up to that point in history. The US included.

Quote: Or, does he just enjoy watching blood spill?

Moo Ha Ha Ha Better sleep with one eye open or God will get you

Quote:Please, Drich, try to square the notion that God chooses to demand death for not doing what he wants with this notion that God is a being of love. I do so enjoy watching you scramble to defend the psychopathic behavior of your kind and loving savior.

I believe you have confused me with someone else. Remember I am the one who worships The warrior God who order babies to be smashed against rocks and who order women and old people to be put to the sword. I have no problem with His demand for death for sin, especially when He sent His only son to do all of the dying for those who don't want to die for what they owe Him.

In turn if You do want to die (As Jesus literally was beaten bled and died that what was 'sacrificed' He endured what you owe) for your sins/what you personally owe God. I have no issue with letting you do that. That means I have less issue with God requiring that of you. Why? Again because He provided a substitute for those who do not want to pay God what they owe, and you know of that substitute. Which makes it your choice your problem. If God saw fit to give you a choice then who am I to argue with what you choose?

My only responsiablity in this is to make sure you understand the fullness of your decision.

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(May 5, 2013 at 10:35 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Or, does he just enjoy watching blood spill?

Drippy's god is a dick.

Only to butt holes

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(May 5, 2013 at 11:34 pm)Ryantology Wrote: A coherent argument is simple: you cannot demonstrate that a single one of your assertions is true, and since most of them contradict reality and are not repeatable, the combination of these two factors is a fatal flaw.

Infact I can demonstrate everything God says in the bible to be true. (As we have previously ) The only problem is if I take all of the steps needed to show you want you want to see it would be too late for you to do anything about it. (You would be dead) That is why I suggest that you A/S/K as Luke 11 outlines. For if God shows you what is on the other side you might get a ride back so you can put into practice what you have learned.

(May 5, 2013 at 11:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Because He said so?!?

1. The sort of non-answer which results from a lack of thinking.
2. That just proves that he desires and enjoys death. He didn't make death the payment for sin because he had no other choice; how could an omnipotent being be subject to necessity? The only explanation left would be that he wants people to suffer death, and the only explanation why is because the death of men gives him pleasure.

Quote:We truly have no idea of the consenquences sin has on everything. Our relationship with sin is graded on a curve. Meaning our exposure to it has raise our tolerance of it to the point where we have no true perspective of what even our smallest sin really does.

The only consequences of sin which should matter, to a believer, is what consequences they have on God. Obviously, they can have none, right? He could not actually be harmed or in any way put out by sin. Sin cannot be a threat to him in any way. What is it, then? It offends his pride. God looks at sin the way an abusive husband looks at his wife when she tries to think or do for herself. Like the abusive husband, God reacts to this with anger and revenge. I often wonder why Christians have such miserably poor standards of goodness and perfection, that they would worship a being like this.

Quote:That is what self righteousness does. It tells you you are basically a 'good' person because you do not involve yourself in extremes. When in truth because you are in a constant state of sin you can never truly have the perspective you need to see yourself as you really are...

But, I do have that outside perspective. And now I see what it really means. After all, sin is nothing but saying no to God. Sin is not inherently or objectively bad. There are many evils which are not sins, and many harmless acts which are. So, what am I? A good man? Maybe. Not completely. I have my faults and my shortcomings. My standard of goodness is alien to you, however, because I live in the real world and care about real world things. I care about humanity, while your religion holds mankind in utter disdain. I want humanity to mature and achieve, you anxiously await your prophesied end of the world and the deaths of everybody.

The one who lacks perspective is yourself, deluded by the idea that not only is there an objective set of right and wrong actions, but that your god is the source of that objectivity. This is, no doubt, why you have previously made it clear that atrocities committed by God's command are good actions.

Quote:After all Did the Nazi war crimminals see themselves as evil people? No the loved their country and saw what they did as something like a cleansing that needed to happen in order for their country to be strong. Just like in every other Major Super power had done up to that point in history. The US included.

Do Christians see themselves as evil people? No. They love their God and see what that they do in God's name as something like a cleansing that needed to happen in order for them to find favor with their God. Just like every major religion had done up to that point in history.

Quote:Moo Ha Ha Ha Better sleep with one eye open or God will get you

Why can't you ever answer that question? Does God enjoy seeing blood spill?

Quote:I believe you have confused me with someone else. Remember I am the one who worships The warrior God who order babies to be smashed against rocks and who order women and old people to be put to the sword. I have no problem with His demand for death for sin, especially when He sent His only son to do all of the dying for those who don't want to die for what they owe Him.

So, you admit, then, that God is not loving and merciful?

Quote:In turn if You do want to die (As Jesus literally was beaten bled and died that what was 'sacrificed' He endured what you owe) for your sins/what you personally owe God. I have no issue with letting you do that. That means I have less issue with God requiring that of you. Why? Again because He provided a substitute for those who do not want to pay God what they owe, and you know of that substitute. Which makes it your choice your problem. If God saw fit to give you a choice then who am I to argue with what you choose?

Why is violent extortion considered a righteous act by Christianity?

Quote:Infact I can demonstrate everything God says in the bible to be true. (As we have previously ) The only problem is if I take all of the steps needed to show you want you want to see it would be too late for you to do anything about it. (You would be dead)

All that prevarication says to me is that you are a liar making false claims. Put up or shut up.

Quote:That is why I suggest that you A/S/K as Luke 11 outlines. For if God shows you what is on the other side you might get a ride back so you can put into practice what you have learned.

I already told you, I A/S/Ked and I did find the truth, which is to say, I found nothing.

*waits patiently for the op.

1 Corinthians 1:18 / For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

(May 5, 2013 at 11:21 pm)Drich Wrote:

(May 5, 2013 at 7:44 pm)A_Nony_Mouse Wrote: So the question for Christians is why some primitive god right out of a B movie demanded blood sacrifice and then committed suicide to make it happen.

Is this not the very definition of narcissism? Is not suicide a sin?

Is it? Do you have book Chapter and verse that says it is? 6 people in the bible committed suicide (Judges 9:54; 1 Samuel 31:4-6; 2 Samuel 17:23; 1 Kings 16:18; Matthew 27:5). even so, no where is it out right condemned by God. That said Murder is a sin, and one can argue Suicide is self murder, meaning one can find forgiveness for murder as it is not the unpardonable sin.

Fine with me. All my life I have been hearing Christians saying suicide is a sin. Now that I have you to cite as the final authority I will feel free to tell them they are wrong.

Quote:

Quote: Does this explain why he condemned himself to hell for the sin of suicide?

Can you provide book chapter and verse for this assertion as i have no idea what you are referencing

Before I look it up to find which gospel, are you really going to say you never heard of this before? Or do you intend to tell me it really does not mean what the English translation says?

Quote:

Quote:The rational mind has so many questions about the explanations which are completely and totally the invention of fallible people mostly poor educated and superstitious.

Then why are you (someone who seems to be claiming to be educated and not superstitious) having such a hard time simply relaying what the bible actually says on the subject let alone compiling a cohearant argument on the subject that actively shows all of the fatal flaws and superstition you claim it has?

What difficulty? Belief in gods is superstitious. Nothing more needs be said anyone more than the "all but this one god" are fake people feel they have to go through all the holy books in the world and refute them line by line. Put it a different way. No one knows who wrote most of the bible and for the few good guesses in the new testament no one knows if they were reliable, upstanding people or just more Hubbard and Freud. You certainly do not.

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(May 5, 2013 at 11:34 pm)catfish Wrote:

(May 5, 2013 at 7:44 pm)A_Nony_Mouse Wrote: So the question for Christians is why some primitive god right out of a B movie demanded blood sacrifice and then committed suicide to make it happen.

He didn't...

With what do you disagree? Blood sacrifice? Suicide? B movie? Please be specific.

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(May 5, 2013 at 11:47 pm)Drich Wrote: [quote='Ryantology' pid='441017' dateline='1367805952']
So, tell me, why did God make it necessary for death to pay for sin?

Because He said so?!?

Someone said he said so but the question is why did the god make it that way? Free choice to do otherwise. Why the B movie touch?

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(May 6, 2013 at 3:06 am)goodnews Wrote: 1 Corinthians 1:18 / For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

That is just something the con artist who wrote Corinthians said. Is that the best you have?

(May 5, 2013 at 11:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Infact I can demonstrate everything God says in the bible to be true. I suggest that you A/S/K as Luke 11 outlines.

Anyone can convince himself of anything being true if that individual forgoes reason.

Quote:Only to butt holes

I didn't know you became catholic, Drippy.

Being separated from God the Father on the Cross and feeling the anguish of humanity's sins.