And now class, having been poked repeatedly, the cornered conservative begins to lose it, grasping frantically at any straws he can rather than admit he's wrong.

A Theist Wrote:Barack lied. Yes, Bin laden was dead, but Al Qaeda wasn't decimated as he 'stated', 'suggested' or 'implied'...

To repeat:
Decimated =/= gone and no longer a threat.

Nice try.

He continues his nearly incoherent raving:

Quote:if Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were that clueless about the events in Benghazi then this has to be the most inept out of touch administrations in U.S. history...No president, including Barack, can be that ignorant and uninformed...Unless you can prove that Barack had no knowledge at the time that the attacks on Benghazi weren't organized terrorist attacks, he remains a liar...

Poke him a few more times and we may see his head explode.

Quote:..."Nobody cares what you think. Prove any or all of these allegations. Good luck."

Sure. I will prove my allegation that...

Quote:Bush went into the National Guard instead of putting his ass on the line in Vietnam.

1. Bush was in the National Guard at the time of the draft.
2. Bush was not in Vietnam.
3. There is no evidence that he was forced into the National Guard against his will.

Ta da!

P.S. It really isn't necessary to repost the entire post you're responding to. It's a waste of space when you do that.

(May 22, 2013 at 4:52 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: To repeat:
Decimated =/= gone and no longer a threat.

Nice try.

Quote:"... Prove any or all of these allegations. Good luck."

Sure. I will prove my allegation that...

Quote:Bush went into the National Guard instead of putting his ass on the line in Vietnam.

1. Bush was in the National Guard at the time of the draft.
2. Bush was not in Vietnam.
3. There is no evidence that he was forced into the National Guard against his will.

Ta da!

Quote:To repeat:
Decimated =/= gone and no longer a threat.

Nice try.

Benghazi=/= Al Qaeda still a threat.

Barack and Hillary are still liars.

Quote:Sure. I will prove my allegation that...

Quote:Bush went into the National Guard instead of putting his ass on the line in Vietnam.

1. Bush was in the National Guard at the time of the draft.
2. Bush was not in Vietnam.
3. There is no evidence that he was forced into the National Guard against his will.

You haven't proven anything except that you repeat DNC lies, smear and rumor mongering...
A lot of men were in the Guard at that time...It's still not proof that Bush or anyone else sought refuge in the NG or ANG to avoid the draft...there were 23,000 NG and ANG called up for a year of active duty between 1968 and 1974, the time frame that Bush joined the ANG...8,700 Guardsmen and Air National Guardsmen were deployed to Viet Nam at that time, so it's not likely that Bush joined the ANG to avoid going to Viet Nam...

Quote:It has been said[by whom?], during the 1968–1974 period, Presidents Johnson and Nixon decided against calling up National Guard units for service in Vietnam. However, military documents show during the Vietnam War, almost 23,000 Army and Air Guardsmen were called up for a year of active duty; some 8,700 were deployed to Vietnam.

Quote:Ta da!

Ta da nothing...you're still a naive leftist who hasn't proven anything.

Why do you quote the entire post you're responding to? This is a waste of space.

(May 23, 2013 at 9:36 am)A Theist Wrote: Benghazi=/= Al Qaeda still a threat.

You're getting increasingly incoherent.

Perhaps you don't realize that "=/=" means "does not equal"?

As in "decimated =/= gone and no longer a threat". To say that Obama declared Al Qaida "gone and no longer a threat" is a straw man.

Quote:Barack and Hillary are still liars.

Oh my goodness, you used the word "liars". How impolitic. How "shrill" you are. Someone pass me the smelling salts and some pearls to clutch. Or is it now acceptable to use the word "liars"? Or IOKIYAR?

In any event, prove it.

Quote:A lot of men were in the Guard at that time...It's still not proof that Bush or anyone else sought refuge in the NG or ANG to avoid the draft...

Did Bush go to Vietnam where he could fight in the war he cheered on? Was he dragged kicking and screaming into the National Guard instead? Did he fight his assignment into the National Guard saying, "no, no, I must fight alongside my American brethren in our glorious war that I support!"? Did he not have the option to join the army and fight in Vietnam instead?

Bush made the choice to go to the National Guard instead of going to Vietnam. Spin it all you like. When you stop spinning, he's still a chicken-hawk.

(May 23, 2013 at 9:36 am)A Theist Wrote: A lot of men were in the Guard at that time...It's still not proof that Bush or anyone else sought refuge in the NG or ANG to avoid the draft...there were 23,000 NG and ANG called up for a year of active duty between 1968 and 1974, the time frame that Bush joined the ANG...8,700 Guardsmen and Air National Guardsmen were deployed to Viet Nam at that time, so it's not likely that Bush joined the ANG to avoid going to Viet Nam...

You are neglecting the fact that between 1961 and 1974 roughly 2.8 million men and women served in Vietnam. To keep proper perspective, between 1966 and 1967 American troop levels in Vietnam rose from 190,000 to 535,000. Meaning, the majority of those 2.8 million who served did so from 1966 until troop levels began dropping rapidly in 1970. In comparison, the 23,000 National Guardsmen serving in Vietnam between 1968 and 1974 is a rather small amount, no? Also, if you actually read the source you posted and bolded, it reads that 23,000 National Guardsmen were called up for active duty, and 8,700 were sent to Vietnam. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and using the higher figure, when it could very well be only 8,700 were deployed to Vietnam, and the remaining amount were active here in the US at that time. I'd like to see the link for that source to clear this up, please.
Bottom line: The National Guard was a safe haven for those wanting to avoid service in Vietnam. There were so many men trying to get into the National Guard, that there were waiting lists to be accepted. This is a recognized historic fact, commonly accepted and asserted by historians, if not by you. You don't have to accept it, but it doesn't change the factual reality and makes you look like an ostrich burying his head in the sand to avoid reality.
Furthermore, I don't think it a stretch to assume the National Guard sent their best and brightest to serve in Vietnam (considering they sent a relatively small amount of personnel), which George W. Bush certainly wasn't part of, as he scored rather poorly on his flight exam.
Bush dodged the draft. I have no problem with the fact that he dodged it, lots of men did. I do have a problem with you not accepting reality and basing arguments on fictions you're pulling out of your ass.

(May 23, 2013 at 10:47 am)festive1 Wrote: Bottom line: The National Guard was a safe haven for those wanting to avoid service in Vietnam. There were so many men trying to get into the National Guard, that there were waiting lists to be accepted. This is a recognized historic fact, commonly accepted and asserted by historians, if not by you. You don't have to accept it, but it doesn't change the factual reality and makes you look like an ostrich burying his head in the sand to avoid reality.

And regardless, at the end of the day after all the spinning is done, Bush made a choice: National Guard in a relatively safe place (where risk of being sent to Vietnam wasn't 0% but still lower than absolute certainty) or Army and certainly fight in the war he cheered on.

He made his choice to serve in the National Guard rather than Vietnam.

So, even assuming that Barnes is lying, Bush served his entire time of enlistment, no family influence was ever used, and all the Democratic charges are all lies and smears, at the end of the day after all the spinning is done, Bush still made a choice.

He chose to go to the National Guard instead of the Army.

Ergo, chicken-hawk. Q.E.D.

(May 23, 2013 at 11:52 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(May 23, 2013 at 10:47 am)festive1 Wrote: Bottom line: The National Guard was a safe haven for those wanting to avoid service in Vietnam. There were so many men trying to get into the National Guard, that there were waiting lists to be accepted. This is a recognized historic fact, commonly accepted and asserted by historians, if not by you. You don't have to accept it, but it doesn't change the factual reality and makes you look like an ostrich burying his head in the sand to avoid reality.

And regardless, at the end of the day after all the spinning is done, Bush made a choice: National Guard in a relatively safe place (where risk of being sent to Vietnam wasn't 0% but still lower than absolute certainty) or Army and certainly fight in the war he cheered on.

He made his choice to serve in the National Guard rather than Vietnam.

So, even assuming that Barnes is lying, Bush served his entire time of enlistment, no family influence was ever used, and all the Democratic charges are all lies and smears, at the end of the day after all the spinning is done, Bush still made a choice.

He chose to go to the National Guard instead of the Army.

Ergo, chicken-hawk. Q.E.D.

Quote:...at the end of the day after all the spinning is done, Bush made a choice:

Cliche: At the end of the day, you still haven't proven anything...Bush joined the Air National Guard to train as a fighter pilot at a time when the ANG and NG were being called up to serve a year of duty in Viet Nam, (1968-1972)...Regardless of whether or not that Bush or any other guardsman went to Viet Nam, you still have to prove that Bush intended to avoid fighting there by joining the ANG...and you haven't done that...


Hence, You're still FOS

(May 24, 2013 at 7:54 am)A Theist Wrote: Cliche: At the end of the day, you still haven't proven anything...Bush joined the Air National Guard to train as a fighter pilot at a time when the ANG and NG were being called up to serve a year of duty in Viet Nam, (1968-1972)...Regardless of whether or not that Bush or any other guardsman went to Viet Nam, you still have to prove that Bush intended to avoid fighting there by joining the ANG...and you haven't done that...

And this, class, concludes our lesson in American Reactionary debate behavior. Having lost the debate after being presented with basic indisputable facts, the conservative stubbornly refuses to admit that he's wrong, grasping at the flimsiest of straws and retreating to a land of denial.

We've witnessed this specimen run through the routine tactics, including

1. Ignoring embarrassing questions, even when called repeatedly to answer them
2. Red Herring evasion
3. Retreating to the Both-Sides-Do-It Bunker
4. Lie your ass off
5. Never give up. Never admit you were wrong.

This has been a demonstration of the behavior that has helped sustain the wack-job wing of the GOP despite the cluster-mess that was their last administration. In a more rational time or place, this specimen would be an endangered species. Unfortunately, bone-heads like this one still represent a solid 40% of the voters in America, so we still have a long struggle ahead of us, at least until the angry-white-old-male-Fox-watchers start dying off of old age in larger numbers.

Now, are there any questions from the class?

*Eagerly raises her hand*
So how do we, as a nation, overcome the very serious problems facing our country when one side refuses, and actively denies reality? How can our two party government possibly function given these conditions? Furthermore, there's the problem of the side which denies actual, factual based reality, not recognizing their own denial and blames the other side for lying or being misleading. How do we get them to see how crazy it all is? Where do we go from here?

P.S. A Theist, I still would like to see the link of your source of the 23,000/8,700 National Guardsmen being deployed to Vietnam, pretty please.

In classic fashion typical of the pompousass left, notice how DP once again resorts to the diversionary tactic of long winded ranting and bloviating after he fails to meet the challenge of burden of proof.

Therefore, you're still FOS

(May 24, 2013 at 9:19 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(May 24, 2013 at 7:54 am)A Theist Wrote: Cliche: At the end of the day, you still haven't proven anything...Bush joined the Air National Guard to train as a fighter pilot at a time when the ANG and NG were being called up to serve a year of duty in Viet Nam, (1968-1972)...Regardless of whether or not that Bush or any other guardsman went to Viet Nam, you still have to prove that Bush intended to avoid fighting there by joining the ANG...and you haven't done that...

And this, class, concludes our lesson in American Reactionary debate behavior. Having lost the debate after being presented with basic indisputable facts, the conservative stubbornly refuses to admit that he's wrong, grasping at the flimsiest of straws and retreating to a land of denial.

We've witnessed this specimen run through the routine tactics, including

1. Ignoring embarrassing questions, even when called repeatedly to answer them
2. Red Herring evasion
3. Retreating to the Both-Sides-Do-It Bunker
4. Lie your ass off
5. Never give up. Never admit you were wrong.

This has been a demonstration of the behavior that has helped sustain the wack-job wing of the GOP despite the cluster-mess that was their last administration. In a more rational time or place, this specimen would be an endangered species. Unfortunately, bone-heads like this one still represent a solid 40% of the voters in America, so we still have a long struggle ahead of us, at least until the angry-white-old-male-Fox-watchers start dying off of old age in larger numbers.

Now, are there any questions from the class?

---

(May 24, 2013 at 10:27 am)festive1 Wrote: P.S. A Theist, I still would like to see the link of your source of the 23,000/8,700 National Guardsmen being deployed to Vietnam, pretty please.

Here's the link for festive ...see "Acceptance in National Guard", 1rst paragraph...I posted this link twice already but here it is again just for you...I don't even know why I'm bothering to post the link for a third time, you'll just deny it anyway.

Still don't comprehend what dickheads both Cheney and you are, do you boy?

Like Bill Maher says - reality does not penetrate the republicunt bubble.

Cheney is a miserable cunt. Anyone who supports him must be the same.