@Brian37

I have the same experience in talking to my atheist acquaintances. I might make a certain contention, and the reply is almost always "I respect your theism. Why can't you respect my atheism?" As if my disagreeing with them is, in itself, disrespectful. Humbug I say.

@Brian: I have exactly the same respect for atheists, if not more so, in real life. IRL you have a person in front of you who demands respect. I have some great and animated convos. I never get to name calling and insults. Though I do say things like atheism is ignorance, because just like on here, I like to wind up a little.

I love being questioned. To me that's core to my faith. Without questioning my faith becomes worthless. It losses validity quickly. It gets stuck in a point in time, and is susceptible to decay.

Blasphemy can feel like a personal insult, sure. You don't have to respect that. I'm only human. I do it myself. I don't see how I can demand anything of you. I can ask you respect my feelings. it's certainly no barrier to good debate.

(June 15, 2013 at 1:39 am)ReasonableRuben Wrote: @Brian37

I have the same experience in talking to my atheist acquaintances. I might make a certain contention, and the reply is almost always "I respect your theism. Why can't you respect my atheism?" As if my disagreeing with them is, in itself, disrespectful. Humbug I say.

Fucking liar. Almost always? You don't many atheists, do you?

Atheists, almost always, don't respect your theism; they respect your right to have whatever dicked up belief you hold. Huge fucking difference.

(June 15, 2013 at 2:25 am)cato123 Wrote:

(June 15, 2013 at 1:39 am)ReasonableRuben Wrote: @Brian37

I have the same experience in talking to my atheist acquaintances. I might make a certain contention, and the reply is almost always "I respect your theism. Why can't you respect my atheism?" As if my disagreeing with them is, in itself, disrespectful. Humbug I say.

Fucking liar. Almost always? You don't many atheists, do you?

Atheists, almost always, don't respect your theism; they respect your right to have whatever dicked up belief you hold. Huge fucking difference.

Thank you. There is a HUGE difference in valuing human rights and the right to claim something and express that claim. It is another to expect others to say "isn't that nice" when they have no evidence for what they are claiming.

That is why I hate the word "respect". I don't hold positions I do not value. If I value a position I hold that position. I can value someone as a friend without valuing every sentence they may utter. I think it shows insecurity to expect someone not to question you. I think it shows intellectual courage to consider that you may be wrong. I hate people who fear my ridicule and blasphemy. I value people more who even if they keep their position, who do not fear me out of childish insecurity.

I don't expect a theist to value my atheism, that is stupid, if they valued my atheism they would be an atheist. I do however don't like it when they go around making claims, and when I say, "that is not true" or "bullshit" they childishly say "YOU HATE ME" or "SHUT UP"

When most people use the word "respect" what they really want is the submission of the subordinate. This is an evolutionary trait not just in humans. But the alpha male in any given species does not like the help of a subordinate or a challenge by a subordinate.

Religion and god belief depends on buying first and then retrofitting after the fact. And it always takes a questioner to drag humanity into the future. I am not going to filter my language or remain silent because a theist is too lazy to look in the mirror. It does not mean I hate them, it merely means I refuse to coddle their insecurities. If someone thinks they have the truth then have the balls to defend your claim intellectually, don't run from it or play victim or demand taboos or cry political correctness. That will make me hate you.

With me, and I only speak for me. The theist who responds to me has a choice, debate and take the heat, or don't respond. But do not complain if you chose to debate me.

(June 13, 2013 at 3:44 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote: How is that labeled miraculous?

They didn't miss the bowl?

Having grown up as one of seven children, all but one of which was male, I can tell you that really is miraculous. (Sadly for my one sister cleaning the bathroom was seen as a more feminine task and my altruism was not so evolved back then.)

(June 13, 2013 at 1:10 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: I wanted to take a moment to say "Thank You" to all of the theist member here at AF.org. Specifically, Thanks to those who have stuck around and shouldered the heat they get day in and day out.

I genuinely respect you all for standing up for what you believe in. While I completely disagree with the vast majority of what you believe, I have to give you props for sticking it out amongst the wolves. We can be a harsh bunch and it would be so much easier for you to just give up what is likely an unwinnable battle but you don't. You hang on and continue to defend your views.

Thank you for helping to make this forum such and enjoyable and informative place to hang out.

Can I also add a shout out to the team running AF.org, because they do an awesome job of making sure that theists who post here are tasteful. They only keep those that really want to have a discussion instead of spam walls of scripture.

Theists don't belong here. It's like joining an all-male gym when you are a female.
They have many many forums to choose from, why lurk and troll here?
We all know what they stand for, so what's the point?

I for one like coming to atheist church God=BS.

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(June 15, 2013 at 7:34 am)Brian37 Wrote: I don't expect a theist to value my atheism

I don't value your atheism. I value the opinions of people. I would think of it as a personal failure to miss what someone was saying because I descriminated against them.

And any person deserves respect. Otherwise what respect do I have for myself?

(June 15, 2013 at 11:46 am)God=BS Wrote: Theists don't belong here. It's like joining an all-male gym when you are a female.
They have many many forums to choose from, why lurk and troll here?
We all know what they stand for, so what's the point?

Fuck that, seriously. I want theists here. Is that what you want, a closed group where we simply pat each other on the back? Sounds boring to me.

What good does it do? If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves. Throughout our species history someone had to question and even piss off social norms and make waves to make change.

We know what they stand for yes, and considering I used to be a believer and many here were, what good does it do? Well, our species did go from burning witches to women's rights. Our species went from owning slaves to abolishing slavery. What good does it do? What a stupid question.

I like having theists here because it keeps me sharp. And while I have been at it 12 years, it never ceases to amaze me how many different ways the theist can try to present the same bad argument. I get new versions all the time. Kinda like new software, you gotta keep up with it and know how to debug it.

Plus theists are still humans, not a sub species. I may hate the concept of a god, and the concept of feeling like someone needs a religion, but my family and my friends and most of the world believe. Do I want the debate, YES, because it is needed.

This "What is the point" actually pisses me off more than most theist arguments. I can tell you where the atheist voice was in 01 which was at least in the states tiny by today's measures. Back in 01 there were only a handful of atheist websites, and no major best selling books by atheists. And the only time we were mentioned it was by theist to demonize us.

Now you cant goolge search "atheist" in "news" without hitting a news story somewhere and many times multiple stories in the states almost every day. Not to mention Dawkins and Harris, and Ayaan Hersi Ali who is not only a hero to atheists, but women of all beliefs worldwide.

What does it matter? What kind of world do you want to live in? One that dwells with what feels good, or one that is unafraid of reality and is educated with reality not superstition? If we simply said as a species "what's the point" the sun would be a god, and the earth would be flat.

I am only for kicking someone off ANY BOARD regardless of topic, spamming and physical threats or advocating law braking. But other than that, I want theists here.

And whats with the sexist remark about women joining a man's gym? You do understand that there is more to evolution than mere brawn?

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(June 15, 2013 at 4:26 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I for one like coming to atheist church God=BS.

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(June 15, 2013 at 7:34 am)Brian37 Wrote: I don't expect a theist to value my atheism

I don't value your atheism. I value the opinions of people. I would think of it as a personal failure to miss what someone was saying because I descriminated against them.

And any person deserves respect. Otherwise what respect do I have for myself?

Stop, "discrimination" is when you hate someone for no good reason. Saying for example "the earth is not flat you idiot" to someone who believes the earth is flat" is not discrimination. It is stating a fact, and anyone who would still believe the earth is flat knowing what we know now would be an idiot.

Don't confuse hate of a claim with hate of a person, if you keep doing that, I really will hate you.

Like you I value someone's right to express their opinion. I do not value giving it taboo status when I do not agree with it. I personally failed most of my childhood caving in to people who didn't want me expressing myself, and all that got me was depressed and bullied.

Really, any person deserves respect? Any person? Men who make women walk behind them deserve "respect"? Men who shoot girls because they want an education deserve "respect". Hitler demanded "respect" too.

You don't like my word choice. That is a comfort issue on your part. Nothing more. If you don't like it, you don't have to respond to me.

(June 15, 2013 at 11:46 am)God=BS Wrote: Theists don't belong here. It's like joining an all-male gym when you are a female.
They have many many forums to choose from, why lurk and troll here?
We all know what they stand for, so what's the point?

I think you have the wrong place. This is an all-comers forum.