(July 21, 2013 at 11:20 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(July 21, 2013 at 11:10 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: That still doesn't address the point that science attests deist paladin.

Yes I did. Brain = a being. No brain = no being. I'm sorry but I can't explain it any slower to you. (1)

Quote:Any cells you might dislodge from your nose are not a potential unique human being.

Yes they are with cloning technology. It would be a twin but we've already discussed how that doesn't make you any less of a being. (2)

Quote:A brain might constitute a legal 'person'. But you know that a person is being prevented after conception has occurred and you deliberately terminate it.

Maybe. Maybe it would be miscarried or a still born. As previously mentioned, "Definitely and right now" trumps "maybe someday". (3)

1. insults don't help your case. neither does your obstinance to face facts.
2. if your nose picking wasn't earmarked for cloning, it would be a waste product just like all of the dead human cells shed every day. It isn't inherently a human being the same as a fertilised egg is.
3. definitely right now would get you a jail sentence. maybe is an ethical issue that you can't dodge.

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(July 21, 2013 at 11:28 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(July 21, 2013 at 11:20 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I'm OK with all justifiable reasons for abortion. There are many grey areas, which are the decision of the parents to make.

The fact that you would allow abortion in the case of rape

Another very poor argument.

You should notice that I said "justifiable". I made no comment on the individual examples, and also specified that the ethical choice was down to the parent.

I'm OK for the parent to choose what they want to do. All I'm saying is that they should realise the ethical implication.

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(July 21, 2013 at 11:28 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: your motive is really not about rights to life. It's about sex and the use of abortion as birth control, isn't it? And you think that the law should prevent such choices being exercised when you deem the choices to be "immoral", no?

And your religious bias surfaces again.

No I have absolutely no interest in controlling anything, as I've clearly stated above. Now take your disgusting ideas out of my face.

(July 21, 2013 at 11:29 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: 1. insults don't help your case. neither does your obstinance to face facts.

It's not an insult. It's just a statement that I can't explain it any more slowly to you. It's a simple argument and I genuinely can't understand why you can't grasp it.

Quote:2. if your nose picking wasn't earmarked for cloning, it would be a waste product just like all of the dead human cells shed every day. It isn't inherently a human being the same as a fertilised egg is.

I said "scratch your nose". Or any other skin on your body. These are live cells that could be used for cloning. Potential being means nothing. What's important is what is, not what might be perhaps one day.

Quote:3. definitely right now would get you a jail sentence. maybe is an ethical issue that you can't dodge.

What ethical issue?

Quote:Another very poor argument.

You should notice that I said "justifiable".

Why is it justifiable to punish a child for what the father did?

If it really is a living being, then it should be unacceptable to murder a child for being the offspring of a rapist.

(July 21, 2013 at 11:20 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(July 21, 2013 at 11:15 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: fr0d0, do you mind clarifying your position? Are you ok with abortion if baby has serious handicap that will affect baby's life? are you ok with abortion if rape? or abortion if incest? in other words, do you have exclusions, or is it all no-go?

I'm OK with all justifiable reasons for abortion. There are many grey areas, which are the decision of the parents to make.

Ok except for the details about when an embryo becomes a "person", i think we're on the same page. But if you're going to act the same way i act regardless of what you believe in, there's really not much point in me trying to change your mind.

You do realize that what is justifiable is different for everyone, and that it's up to them to determine when they want an abortion? If yea, then we're on the same page.

Your dumb is to much to comprehend DP

ugh (I'm just joining you with the ad hominems so you don't get lonely )

1. You missed the "inherently" point re cloning. The only point there

2. a life ended is not an ethical issue to you? Recently you we're arguing that there was absolutely no way that taking life was justifiable. Now it's OK?

3. I didn't say that it (post rape abortion) was justifiable. I abstained from commenting. learn to read.

Christianforums we're right. You are a troll.

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(July 21, 2013 at 11:46 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: Ok except for the details about when an embryo becomes a "person", i think we're on the same page.

You do realize that what is justifiable is different for everyone, and that it's up to them to determine when they want an abortion? If yea, then we're on the same page.

I've never mentioned personhood

Yes

@fr0d0, right, you say life. i'm not going to treat it differently just because i call it life. i actually know what an embryo is, what a fetus is, what organs grow in which weeks, when the brain starts growing, so i make my decisions and judgements based on what is actually occurring, not what you call it. and for me, a cell is a cell at conception, yea it's alive, but it's a cell, and it does what a cell does. so if someone takes a pill and this cell does not implant, that's all there is to it. i can have some understanding of why some people are uncomfortable about abortion after all the organs are fully formed. But at conception? i cannot wrap my head around that.

It's not what I call it it's what science calls it.

To me your stance is based on emotion. You can see something recognisable and so feel guilty.

What you're actually doing from conception is terminating a life/ preventing a potential life that's just been programmed with genetic information for its life span.

It doesn't matter who calls it life. It doesn't change what it is, which is a cell. Do you understand the point I'm trying to make?

No, a baby is recognizable way before all the organs are formed. I know, I held an aborted/miscarried (forgot which) fetus in my own hands before. I say when all organs are fully formed because that's when the baby has a fighting chance of surviving without the mum's body, a slim one, but yea. Which means pregnancy can be terminated without the fetus's death.

(July 21, 2013 at 11:50 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You missed the "inherently" point re cloning. The only point there

Human cells are inherently human cells. Any of them, with the exception of blood cells, inherently carry human DNA. Any such cells that carry human DNA can be inherently used to clone a human.

Quote:2. a life ended is not an ethical issue to you?

Only if the life is sentient. Killing living cells is something we do every time we wipe down the kitchen counter. We take antibiotics without a second thought. It's sentient life that is important to us, insofar as discussions on morals and ethics go.

Perhaps if I typed it in all caps, that might help you comprehend the point I've been repeatedly making:

NO BRAIN = NO BEING = NO RIGHTS TO LIFE

Clear?

Quote:3. I didn't say that it (post rape abortion) was justifiable. I abstained from commenting. learn to read.

OK, clarify your position. Does rape justify abortion? Time to put up or shut up.

Quote:Christianforums we're right. You are a troll.

Troll or someone who offers forceful arguments that can't be refuted?

Too bad you can't delete my comments and ban me so you can protect the faith of other Christians from my arguments.

Why do all these threads have to turn into "Fr0d0 is a stupid cunt" threads? Every. Fucking. Time.

(July 22, 2013 at 12:29 am)fr0d0 Wrote: science

What science?