(July 22, 2013 at 4:54 am)Undeceived Wrote:

(July 22, 2013 at 4:38 am)pocaracas Wrote: If, for some reason, you find yourself in the need of help from a stranger, you'd want that stranger to help you, even if there's no immediate gain for that stranger... would you not?
Golden rule.

So you help others to foster a culture in which people are more likely to help you?

It is a logical reason to help others, is it not?

(July 22, 2013 at 4:54 am)Undeceived Wrote: So you help others to foster a culture in which people are more likely to help you?

It's simply the reality: we're a social species, we rely on one another to survive. If we didn't co-operate, we wouldn't have the society we have now which allows us to live longer and more fulfilled lives. We're built from the ground up for this.

But let's flip the script: are you telling us that you can't envision a reason to help people beyond that god wants you to? You're that morally bankrupt a person?

(July 22, 2013 at 8:58 am)Esquilax Wrote:

(July 22, 2013 at 4:54 am)Undeceived Wrote: So you help others to foster a culture in which people are more likely to help you?

It's simply the reality: we're a social species, we rely on one another to survive. If we didn't co-operate, we wouldn't have the society we have now which allows us to live longer and more fulfilled lives. We're built from the ground up for this.

But let's flip the script: are you telling us that you can't envision a reason to help people beyond that god wants you to? You're that morally bankrupt a person?

If there is no God, the only reason to help people is if the action --in some way, at some point-- serves me. How is that moral?

(July 22, 2013 at 1:06 pm)Undeceived Wrote: If there is no God, the only reason to help people is if the action --in some way, at some point-- serves me. How is that moral?

I find that most religions appeal to this part of our nature as well, offering a (very desirable) reward for following certain rules of behavior and offering a (terrifyingly horrible) punishment for refusing to follow those rules.

(July 22, 2013 at 1:06 pm)Undeceived Wrote:

(July 22, 2013 at 8:58 am)Esquilax Wrote: It's simply the reality: we're a social species, we rely on one another to survive. If we didn't co-operate, we wouldn't have the society we have now which allows us to live longer and more fulfilled lives. We're built from the ground up for this.

But let's flip the script: are you telling us that you can't envision a reason to help people beyond that god wants you to? You're that morally bankrupt a person?

If there is no God, the only reason to help people is if the action --in some way, at some point-- serves me. How is that moral?

A belief in the Atonement and Resurrection of Christ is still self-serving, for it gets you to Candy Mountain, and all the nay-sayers go to Mordor.

(July 22, 2013 at 1:06 pm)Undeceived Wrote: If there is no God, the only reason to help people is if the action --in some way, at some point-- serves me. How is that moral?

Why wouldn't it be moral?

(July 22, 2013 at 1:06 pm)Undeceived Wrote: If there is no God, the only reason to help people is if the action --in some way, at some point-- serves me. How is that moral?

But aren't you only doing good to show your god how devoted you are and how much you love him?

In other words, you do good only because it does serve you.

(July 21, 2013 at 4:42 pm)Chas Wrote:

(July 21, 2013 at 4:03 pm)BettyG Wrote: Not true. Good deeds are a response to faith. We do them, not just because God commanded us to or that God will reward them, but because we are grateful for what God has done. Doing charitable works helps us to grow in virtue. One cannot say one is kind unless one does kind acts. Same for patience, prudence, justice, etc. You really can't say you have faith in God and then not do what He commanded.

Yes, but I'm an atheist and do good deeds. No gods are required.

I'm glad. I think it is easier to love others when one's heart is overflowing with God's love and joy.

(July 22, 2013 at 9:07 pm)BettyG Wrote:

(July 21, 2013 at 4:42 pm)Chas Wrote: Yes, but I'm an atheist and do good deeds. No gods are required.

I'm glad. I think it is easier to love others when one's heart is overflowing with God's love and joy.

If you need something to make it easier for you, then ok, i'm glad you have that something.

I don't need it, I wouldn't assume that others need it, if you weren't implying this, then I apologize, but if you were, then please don't.

(July 22, 2013 at 2:11 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(July 22, 2013 at 1:06 pm)Undeceived Wrote: If there is no God, the only reason to help people is if the action --in some way, at some point-- serves me. How is that moral?

But aren't you only doing good to show your god how devoted you are and how much you love him?

In other words, you do good only because it does serve you.

This is where you seem to go off track with Christians, we do not do it for ourselves, we do things for others because they are in need and thus it's a witness for God. It shows how He's at work in our lives, we help others with selflessness, we expect nothing in return.... hopefully most of the time we're human after all. We are to imitate Christ's walk on earth, serving others selflessly.