(August 6, 2013 at 9:10 am)enrico Wrote:

(August 6, 2013 at 8:26 am)bennyboy Wrote: Well, a fact is either a statement of direct experience, or an idea about some reality outside yourself which is true OUTSIDE your experience of it. If you dream about angels talking to you, then it is a fact that you had a dream about angels; that's a simple statement of experience. However, if you start telling people that angels are "really" visiting you in your sleep, you're in trouble-- not only can you not prove it to other people, you can't verify it for yourself.

So maybe angels really ARE bringing you special messages from God, because you are so important that He's decided to personally shepherd you through your important religious role in life. But maybe you're just a person whose desire to feel important leads you to have dreams in which God reaches out to you.

My question for you is this: you are claiming not only experience, but knowledge. What have you done to verify that your "knowledge" represents fact, rather than just a vivid imagination?

Can your physical science explain why these guys do not feel any pain while inserting knives or other things inside their flesh and can science explain why as soon as they take out these knives the hole close immediately?
You see in what kind of intellectual mess are you!!!
http://jamie-monk.blogspot.com.au/2011/0...urite.html

Again, for the 3rd time, you don't know who you're talking to. But yes, science has an explanation for those things. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...100346.htm

Showing science articles to theists is like trying to explain radar to your dog. Ultimately futile.

(August 6, 2013 at 8:12 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Showing science articles to theists is like trying to explain radar to your dog. Ultimately futile.

I disagree. My dog is quite clever, and if presented with proof in the form of cheese (or any other real thing), he'd be willing to adjust his position, even if he wasn't smart enough to really "get it."

I can throw all the cheese I want toward enrico, and he will continue to make factual assertions about his subjective experiences.

(August 6, 2013 at 7:47 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Again, for the 3rd time, you don't know who you're talking to. But yes, science has an explanation for those things. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...100346.htm

The explanation that science gives does not go far enough.
I suggest you to go to any of these festival and see with your eyes how that system works and then compare to hypnosis.
With hypnosis you may not feel pain but you are in a sort of dormant stage and not aware of what is going on.
When instead you are able to disconnect your consciousness from your body by realize who you are and your connection with the cosmic consciousness you are totally aware.
Not only that but as soon as you take off the knives from your flesh the hole close automatically leaving no scar.
Can hypnosis do that?
When you play within the physical borders you can only go so far but when you act outside these border you can go much much further.
And if you consider that these guys do this only once a year and usually are engages in material-physical pursuit like you then imaging what people who are engaged in spirituality could do!

Quote:With hypnosis you may not feel pain but you are in a sort of dormant stage and not aware of what is going on.

Sounds like every jesus-freak moron I've ever met!

(August 10, 2013 at 8:39 am)enrico Wrote:

(August 6, 2013 at 7:47 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Again, for the 3rd time, you don't know who you're talking to. But yes, science has an explanation for those things. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...100346.htm

The explanation that science gives does not go far enough.
I suggest you to go to any of these festival and see with your eyes how that system works and then compare to hypnosis.
With hypnosis you may not feel pain but you are in a sort of dormant stage and not aware of what is going on.
When instead you are able to disconnect your consciousness from your body by realize who you are and your connection with the cosmic consciousness you are totally aware.
Not only that but as soon as you take off the knives from your flesh the hole close automatically leaving no scar.
Can hypnosis do that?
When you play within the physical borders you can only go so far but when you act outside these border you can go much much further.
And if you consider that these guys do this only once a year and usually are engages in material-physical pursuit like you then imaging what people who are engaged in spirituality could do!

No, hypnosis cannot do that. And you haven't demonstrated that anybody or anything, other than healing over time, CAN do that. And that's the thing-- you say a lot of stuff that you believe, but you haven't shown that you have a good reason to believe any of it. If you believe people can poke holes in their body and magically heal them, fine-- show a case where this is documented by anyone OTHER than a believer (or a dufus). You don't get a lot of these kind of reports coming from the Richard Feynmans of the world.

(August 6, 2013 at 9:10 am)enrico Wrote: Can your physical science explain why these guys do not feel any pain while inserting knives or other things inside their flesh and can science explain why as soon as they take out these knives the hole close immediately?
You see in what kind of intellectual mess are you!!!
enrico Wrote: Not only that but as soon as you take off the knives from your flesh the hole close automatically leaving no scar.

(emphasis mine)

You're pathetic. The article that you linked to clearly says, "For weeks after the festival I see local guys with fresh scars! The scar tissue is often quite obvious especially on those who have been participating for many years."

(August 10, 2013 at 11:27 pm)apophenia Wrote:

(August 6, 2013 at 9:10 am)enrico Wrote: Can your physical science explain why these guys do not feel any pain while inserting knives or other things inside their flesh and can science explain why as soon as they take out these knives the hole close immediately?
You see in what kind of intellectual mess are you!!!
enrico Wrote: Not only that but as soon as you take off the knives from your flesh the hole close automatically leaving no scar.

(emphasis mine)

You're pathetic. The article that you linked to clearly says, "For weeks after the festival I see local guys with fresh scars! The scar tissue is often quite obvious especially on those who have been participating for many years."

The problem, apophenia, is that you are foolishly basing your arguments on truth, completely neglecting enrico's feelings of truthiness.

(August 11, 2013 at 12:44 am)bennyboy Wrote: The problem, apophenia, is that you are foolishly basing your arguments on truth, completely neglecting enrico's feelings of truthiness.

If you really want to know the truth you got to go to these festival and see for yourself as i did and see if the physical science can explain these phenomena.
You can argue about scars but again it can be explained why some people may keep some scars for sometime while some other do not.
It all boil down to the fact that some people take the thing very seriously while other do not.
Most of the people as i said in previous post are leading a normal life and only once a year want to test their believe while other lead a better life all year around by being vegetarian by practicing meditation and so on so these believers are more in tune with the cosmic vibration and therefore will not bleed nor will have any scars.
When i saw one of this festival in Penang Malaysia i saw that the hole close perfectly and no scar left that is why i stated that there will not be any scar.

(August 14, 2013 at 10:55 am)enrico Wrote:

(August 11, 2013 at 12:44 am)bennyboy Wrote: The problem, apophenia, is that you are foolishly basing your arguments on truth, completely neglecting enrico's feelings of truthiness.

If you really want to know the truth you got to go to these festival and see for yourself as i did and see if the physical science can explain these phenomena.
You can argue about scars but again it can be explained why some people may keep some scars for sometime while some other do not.
It all boil down to the fact that some people take the thing very seriously while other do not.
Most of the people as i said in previous post are leading a normal life and only once a year want to test their believe while other lead a better life all year around by being vegetarian by practicing meditation and so on so these believers are more in tune with the cosmic vibration and therefore will not bleed nor will have any scars.
When i saw one of this festival in Penang Malaysia i saw that the hole close perfectly and no scar left that is why i stated that there will not be any scar.

What happened when you tried to stick your finger through the guy's skin where the hole should have been?