The non spiritual aspects of prayer are interesting. You're talking to an external and perfect partner. Your reasoning for the answer the partner might give is not limited by you (your persona limit), or any flaw in them, as they have none, so the answer should be the best you could come up with.

As soon as you start this process you're forced to put your thoughts in line with your partner. It becomes immediately apparent if anything you were thinking is selfish, for example.

(August 10, 2013 at 4:04 am)fr0d0 Wrote: The non spiritual aspects of prayer are interesting. You're talking to an external and perfect partner. Your reasoning for the answer the partner might give is not limited by you (your persona limit), or any flaw in them, as they have none, so the answer should be the best you could come up with.

As I see it, the 'other within' doesn't have to be perfect. I imagine it as just being better at getting the big picture and at recognizing salient related ideas. Unlike the Christian God, the unconscious mind is saddled with no omni- characteristics. It would be nice if it were but I don't it is or has to be to be useful. A little help once in a while is always a good thing.

No the "other within" I was referring to is mere human. The human's ideas are focused on what perfection might look like, something the human brain can grasp at.

For example, I might have an idea to pray for someone to get well from an illness. As soon as I begin praying, the person I'm praying to, God, influences my thoughts, as I consider his perspective. Suddenly my perspective widens and considers universal problems. I consider what I'm about to request, and usually completely change what I was about to say.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

(July 29, 2013 at 5:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Why do you pray? (This is mainly for the theists, obviously.)

It seems to me that prayer, broadly speaking, falls into two general catagories: intercessory prayer (where you ask God to effect a change for you or for someone else) and supplicatory prayer (where you tell God how wonderful he is, or how thankful you are, or some such).

Why bother? If everything which happens is according to God's plan (or God's will, or Divine Providence, or whatever the current buzzword is), then an intercessory prayer cannot possible affect the outcome - what is going to happen has been decided already by God. Furthermore (apos to Ambrose Bierce), isn't it rather arrogant of you to ask God to alter his plans on your behalf, when you've already admitted that you're unworthy to have him do so?

And, since God is omniscient, he already knows that's he terrific and how thankful you are - why do you need to tell him? Seems kind of like if every passenger were to walk up to the bus conductor every two seconds and tell him, 'This is the Number 4 bus.'

That in mind, what is the point of prayer?

Prayer is also for us; we need to voice things to God and spend the time to persevere in prayer. It's about a relationship - relationships take time and effort.

Yes, I'm a sinner.. but Christ died for me and I'm now a son of God. I can approach Him with confidence; knowing that He sent His son to die for me, I have great confidence in that. The Bible teaches that God wants to hear from me, though it also teaches that if I love Him I will obey His commands, and living righteously is a part of having prayer answered:

"The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." - James 5:16b

There are actually times in the Bible when a righteous man pleaded to God, and God listened.

It's about relationship, and it's every bit worth the hard work

When Gandalf called the Eagles, they came and carried Frodo and Sam away from the dangers of Mt. Doom. Gandalf not only resurrected cooler and whiter than Jesus, but he saves more lives in his line of work.

My point is, reading lines out of a storybook doesn't mean the account is true.

(August 11, 2013 at 1:50 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: When Gandalf called the Eagles, they came and carried Frodo and Sam away from the dangers of Mt. Doom. Gandalf not only resurrected cooler and whiter than Jesus, but he saves more lives in his line of work.

My point is, reading lines out of a storybook doesn't mean the account is true.

Funny you bring up Lord of the Rings, which was written as an analogy to the Christianity.

#JRRTolkienftw #Doyourhomeworkbeforereplyingandstopcuzyoulookdumbtrollingmearoundtheforums

(August 11, 2013 at 2:13 pm)Locke Wrote: Funny you bring up Lord of the Rings, which was written as an analogy to the Christianity.

Okay, I'm going to stress this point: if it's an analogy to christianity, then it's an exceedingly accurate one.

They're both fictional. Wow, that backfired on you pretty bad, huh?

Quote:#Doyourhomeworkbeforereplyingandstopcuzyoulookdumbtrollingmearoundtheforums

Weren't you the one claiming that the bible has never been wrong in another thread? Glass houses and stones, man. Your floor must be covered in glass.

You mean to tell me that Tolkien wrote Gandalf as an allegory to Jesus, just like C. S. Lewis wrote Aslan as the fictional embodiment of Christ, and how Ender's Game is a SCI-Fi retelling of Mormon history?

What were you saying about homework again, Locke?

So like Smaug is an oblique reference to all mothers-in-law incidentally mentioned in the bible then, right?

(August 11, 2013 at 2:44 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: You mean to tell me that Tolkien wrote Gandalf as an allegory to Jesus, just like C. S. Lewis wrote Aslan as the fictional embodiment of Christ, and how Ender's Game is a SCI-Fi retelling of Mormon history?

What were you saying about homework again, Locke?

Wouldn't it be awfully funny if Tolkien's allegory wasn't actually Jesus at all, and he was just referencing Aslan the whole time?