(September 1, 2013 at 12:44 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote: why are they praised differently?

Because some of them suck.

What makes some suck, and what makes them good. If it was all action, and little moral perspective being taught, how much do you think that would get compared to one with moral perspective being taught?

What makes you think that I care about the moral perspective of the director of "Dawn of the Dead?"

Now "Religulous." There was a movie with a moral perspective!

(September 1, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Minimalist Wrote: What makes you think that I care about the moral perspective of the director of "Dawn of the Dead?"

Now "Religulous." There was a movie with a moral perspective!

This doesn't answer the question. I'm not asking you your view, but why society tends to praise one movie more than the other.

You haven't read the various tafsirs of Quran, hadiths, etc, and are not immersed in the perspective of Muslims, but you judge them. You are not willing to learn anything from them.

The same is true probably of most cultures. I am broken right now. While people keep building their inner city, I keep breaking it, every time I find the foundations are not strong.

Foundation of arrogance is not a good inner city to build on. Foundation of crowd conformity is not a good foundation to bully inner city upon. Love that belittles certain humans because of their culture/colour while loving other humans more because of culture/colour is also a bad foundation.

Seeking the truth is also not a good foundation, if you don't seek a purpose with the truth you looking for.

The foundation of the city to build upon has no word I know of. It's the hidden name of God that if ever found out, you can open the skies of heaven (spiritual higher knowledge) and distinguish falsehood from truth. It also makes you see gems in everyone, instead of picking one type of gemstone and saying it be that which should rule all gems.

(September 1, 2013 at 12:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You haven't proven a story is nothing more. If every movie was nothing more then a movie, why are they praised differently?

It seems that you are beating around the emotional appeal bush.

Can movies and books affect us emotionally? Yes.

Does that mean the movies and books are more than fictional? No.

Movies and books are supposed to contain that to which the audience can relate.

Just because a movie or book mentions a blue curtain which can also be found in reality does not mean that the entire movie or book is based on reality. Reality is dependent upon more than a simple element.

(August 31, 2013 at 10:40 pm)mostlysilent Wrote: So this is a new one for me...There is a super religious lady at work who I generally avoid talking to so she is not aware that I am an atheist. She was talking to another person at the desk next to me about all sorts of really nonsensical religious nonsense when all of a sudden this comes out of her mouth:

"all people are religious to some extent. They just might not realize it. Even Atheists are religious. They believe in something too. They believe in themselves.".

WTF?

I wonder if this means I can refer to myself as God now.

(bold and underlined added by me)....

*So what are we talking about here?
*Is this about religion or is it about belief?
*Why is "atheist" capitolized?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/r...s=t&path=/

re·li·gious [ri-lij-uhs]
adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or concerned with religion: a religious holiday.
2.
imbued with or exhibiting religion; pious; devout; godly: a religious man.
3.
scrupulously faithful; conscientious: religious care.
4.
pertaining to or connected with a monastic or religious order.
5.
appropriate to religion or to sacred rites or observances.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/believe?s=t

be·lieve [bih-leev]
verb
1.
to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.
verb (used with object)
2.
to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to.
3.
to have confidence in the assertions of (a person).
4.
to have a conviction that (a person or thing) is, has been, or will be engaged in a given action or involved in a given situation: The fugitive is believed to be headed for the Mexican border.
5.
to suppose or assume; understand (usually followed by a noun clause): I believe that he has left town.

(September 1, 2013 at 1:02 pm)Maelstrom Wrote:

(September 1, 2013 at 12:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You haven't proven a story is nothing more. If every movie was nothing more then a movie, why are they praised differently?

Can movies and books affect us emotionally? Yes.

Does that mean the movies and books are more than fictional? No.

It does mean they are more than fictional if they affect us emotionally.

Quote:Movies and books are supposed to contain that to which the audience can relate.

Good, how do they relate to it?

Quote:Just because a movie or book mentions a blue curtain which can also be found in reality does not mean that the entire movie or book is based on reality. Reality is dependent upon more than a simple element.

I'm not saying a story is totally based on reality. I'm saying it has meaning to us and the essentially meaning to us, is pivotal to our perception of praise.

The stories we read in school, you think they are all random? They aren't mean to give us perspective? Make us think?

When we project an image of a villain in a story, do you think all of us are projecting the same image? I know it's relative, what I am saying, is stories are making us project things in our psyche.

You think people just told stories of gods/prophets/spirits, etc, for the heck of it?

Everyone has perspective. When we see perspective, we take a leap of faith when we either reject it or accept it.

The tone, the style, the music, etc, all this plays on our emotions.

Reality is while you think religious people are basing everything on delusion, there is a similar impact of whatever culture one choses or what makes of what story/movie/poem.

Remember when Minimalist said my poem belongs into the trash bin? I am realizing it has a deep reminder to me now, but I am just realizing it now.

I plunged in a deep ocean and I have to come out rational and strong when I make it to the surface. I am drowning. I don't know how deep I am lost in, but I know there is a way out where there is a will.

(September 1, 2013 at 1:13 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I plunged in a deep ocean.

You certainly seem to have gone off the deep end. I remember you being more rational before you left for your little hiatus. Now you have returned as though you spent the past months living as a deranged homeless man.

You are taking positive elements of fiction that, if I am going to be honest, irrationally affect us and you are confusing those elements with reality.

Can the protagonist teach us a lesson about life? Sure.

Does that mean the protagonist is more than fiction? No.

(September 1, 2013 at 12:28 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: But I believe I can do this. Why I believe I can do this, I can't explain. But I feel I have to go this path, even if it risks my total loss with reality and reason.

Tom Cruise pre-scientology, is that You?

If somebody bases his life on fiction, that fiction character (like Jesus perhaps) becomes more then fiction at least to that person. So the story doesn't become just fiction, it becomes a driving force of perspective. When a fiction character is not seen as a fantasy, but, a possibility, as true, it has even more significance, because a person relates a fictional reality to the real world and he bases his perception on it. Abraham and Moses perhaps never existed, but the impact it has today can be seen in Palestine/Israel.

Still, the notion and idea of what consists of the value and essence of Moses, changed through out history. No one perceives Abraham in the same way. We all have projection image, and a lot of it is random.

When we judge randomly, we often, quickly judge a person on first impression and make too much conclusions. We may even think we know a lot about them just from their clothes or looks.

When we were kids, we think of a murderer, and we have perception, but perhaps for a person who deals with minds of criminals, sees their path, see what lead them to crime, see what made them lose empath or moral obligation, he has a more realistic perspective.

Most humans are happy with just imagining what they want to see in a person and thinking they know enough about them.

(September 1, 2013 at 1:38 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If somebody bases his life on fiction, that fiction character (like Jesus perhaps) becomes more then fiction at least to that person.

If someone bases his life on a fictional character, like Dumbo perhaps, the character becomes more than fiction only in the individual's deluded mind. In reality, the fictional character remains fiction.

I am not arguing that lessons cannot be learned from fiction, because it is usually the writer's job to impart his worldview through the fictional world about which he has created and written for the reader to experience.

However, there being a lesson to learn does not make the fiction any less fictional.