(September 7, 2013 at 10:39 am)max-greece Wrote: Not interested in the Epistles - I wanted to see where Jesus stated the dietary laws no longer applied.

AS to what Christ said about what goes into the body that would seem to confirm that he did want to stay with the dietary rules.

Paul changed it on his own.

You must be reading the.... whatever, Jesus said what goes into the body does not make one unrighteous, it's what comes from the mouth, for what comes from the mouth originated in the heart.

The story - even as the fucking church tells it - is that "paul" spread the gospel to the gentiles.... not surprising since by the time this shit started spreading the political situation had left the jews a stateless/reviled people.
No one wanted to be like the jews by the mid 2d century.

Quote:"You are fond of saying that in the old days this same most high god made these and greater promises to those who gave heed to his commandments and worshipped him. But at the risk of appearing unkind, I ask how much good has been done by those promises have done either the Jews before you or you in your present circumstances. And would you have us put out faith in such a god? Instead of being masters of the whole world, the jews today have no home of any kind."
Celsus, c 180

The far more reasonable story is that "paul" was a second century literary creation, conceived of by Marcion and later stolen by proto-orthodox writers to convey their own message of "do what the fuck the church tells you to do."

Celsus also wrote:

Quote:Christians, needless to say, utterly detest one another; they slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse, and cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teaching. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense.

The desire for market share seems to have been as big in Celsus' time as it is now.

(September 7, 2013 at 10:58 am)Minimalist Wrote: Celsus also wrote:

Quote:Christians, needless to say, utterly detest one another; they slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse, and cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teaching. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense.

The desire for market share seems to have been as big in Celsus' time as it is now.

The vile lies of Celsus' time are spewed even today, atheist have nothing new to offer for 2000 years.

GC

Quote:God has always had a plan to reunite man with Himself, that plan was and is Christ.

The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them" (Gen. 6:6-7).

I [the Lord] regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands (1 Sam. 15:11).

God planned to regret doing things. How retarded do you have to get before that sounds logical?

Quote:The vile lies of Celsus' time are spewed even today, atheist have nothing new to offer for 2000 years.

Vile lies? Don't you know that the first thing your fucking churchies did when they gained power was to go after other xtians? The pagans did not become the targets of their vicious religion until some time later.

Celsus is right. Xtians hated other xtians....much as they still do today. Good thing they can't burn each other at the stake anymore.

Really, G-C, sometimes I am still astonished by your lack of knowledge of your own history.

Do you believe everything you are told?

(September 6, 2013 at 4:09 pm)ronedee Wrote: If not? I hope you have another good lawyer! Because I have the best!

I'm sure the glove doesn't fit you either, Rondee.

(September 7, 2013 at 10:50 am)Godschild Wrote:

(September 7, 2013 at 10:39 am)max-greece Wrote: Not interested in the Epistles - I wanted to see where Jesus stated the dietary laws no longer applied.

AS to what Christ said about what goes into the body that would seem to confirm that he did want to stay with the dietary rules.

Paul changed it on his own.

You must be reading the.... whatever, Jesus said what goes into the body does not make one unrighteous, it's what comes from the mouth, for what comes from the mouth originated in the heart.

Since, according to you, god is unchanging and Jesus was just clarifying, why didn't Abraham or Moses tell us this in the first place? Why did they lead jews to believe that certain foods would make one unrighteous?

(September 7, 2013 at 10:36 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(September 7, 2013 at 10:50 am)Godschild Wrote: You must be reading the.... whatever, Jesus said what goes into the body does not make one unrighteous, it's what comes from the mouth, for what comes from the mouth originated in the heart.

Since, according to you, god is unchanging and Jesus was just clarifying, why didn't Abraham or Moses tell us this in the first place? Why did they lead jews to believe that certain foods would make one unrighteous?

It would be the eating of those foods would be sinful, and sin leads one away from God, I know that might seem nit picking but, it is they way it is.
Why God gave the food laws to the Israelites I do not know, could be God knows something about those foods we do not. These foods were not of limits to them in Egypt and I would bet that the Egyptians had lots of pork. It's also not that God changes, He continues to reveal His plans through Christ.


GC

(September 6, 2013 at 12:44 pm)max-greece Wrote: I have now read this 3 times and still don't get it.

Jesus died so Christians don't have to follow the rules?

did you read the passage in Romans 6 I left?

I can not give you a yes or no here, because in one aspect we are completely free from the law, but inorder to be free from the law we must love God with all of our being, and this love would prevent us from wanting to break the law, but because we are slaves to sin we will always be in a position where we are found breaking the law. Which is what grace is. It covers our sin when we can help but sin. (I have another chapter in Romans for you to read but we must get through 6 first.)

Quote:So the 10 commandment no longer apply to Christians as Jesus died for them?

in a word no. We are not found righteous, holy, moral, in good standing with God because we try and listen to the 10 commandments. God told us if we break even the smallest of one of these commandments we are guilty of breaking all of them. Every single Christian who goes to church on Sunday has broken the sabbath commandment. For Sunday is the first day of the week and not the seventh. Therefore we are guilty of breaking the whole law according to God. So that means 'Christians' must find a righteousness greater than that of the scribes and Pharisees according to Christ in mat 5 (meaning a righteousness greater than the righteousness obtained from following the law.) that righteousness is attonement.

Quote:Sorry - but this is more than slightly insane.

only if you do not understand the basics of biblical Christianity. The book of Romans is the key to understanding this freedom we have in Christ. Goto biblegateway.com and type in romans and select the ERV version. I'm not making this up, it's all in context on page. No running around to 15 different places, it all one complete thought spelled out ass you contextually read the book. Which will only take about 30 mins.

Quote:Could you try to explain it again - I am sure you are not saying the above.....are you?

I am saying there is absolute freedom in Christ.

---

(September 7, 2013 at 11:27 am)Ryantology Wrote:

Quote:God has always had a plan to reunite man with Himself, that plan was and is Christ.

The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them" (Gen. 6:6-7).

I [the Lord] regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands (1 Sam. 15:11).

God planned to regret doing things. How retarded do you have to get before that sounds logical?

Seriously?

As a parent you tell you kid if you do x one more time your punishment will be Y. They do X and you punish with Y. Is it not then also possible to regret having to punish your kid for what he has done?

(September 8, 2013 at 2:51 am)Drich Wrote:

(September 7, 2013 at 11:27 am)Ryantology Wrote: The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them" (Gen. 6:6-7).

I [the Lord] regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands (1 Sam. 15:11).

God planned to regret doing things. How retarded do you have to get before that sounds logical?

Seriously?

As a parent you tell you kid if you do x one more time your punishment will be Y. They do X and you punish with Y. Is it not then also possible to regret having to punish your kid for what he has done?

Regret indicates a mistake, right? Whenever we feel regret, it is because we have done something, or failed to do something.

Thus your version god is not infallible, right?