(September 9, 2013 at 10:45 am)max-greece Wrote: I'm.......I'm.......I'm.......in....shock.

Did I just see a Christian confirm that righteous Jews go to heaven?

Hang on.....if Righteous Jews get to go to heaven, what about Righteous Moslems or Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs .....

For health and safety reasons, you must not look at sections 841 and 842, because the shock may be too much:
Don't do it!

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(September 9, 2013 at 10:54 am)Brian37 Wrote: I honestly don't get Jews being chummy with Christians (not in humanitarian sense, I'd like everyone to get along even if we bitch at each other, Muslims and atheists included)

But in a story line sense. The bible treats Jews like the limo driver and the Christians as the passengers to the club. The limo arrives to the club, the Christians go in but say to the limo driver "Dude, we love you and thanks for the ride, but this is for club members only"

The cop out I get from Christians is "No no no... they can get in if they accept Jesus". But where does that leave the Jews who don't betray their own faith?

It's a very good post, headed by the best use of an ABBA picture ever, fan or not.

Things have moved on since Vermes “Jesus the Jew” and Sanders “Paul and Palestinian Judaism” were published, and the original relationship with Judaism is being rediscovered.

Christianity is not distinct from Judaism. It is Judaism. When Paul was writing about the place of Jews within the New Covenant, he was writing as a Jew. When the Early Church looked at the OT to develop their understanding of it, they were doing so from within Judaism. When the Gospel writers are writing about the Christmas events, the perspective is so thoroughly Jewish that it almost makes a mockery of the idea it's a Christian event.

The New Testament is the same story as the Old- how the one God is fulfilling his promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, so that through that fulfilment he might accomplish the wider purpose of rescuing the whole world. Jesus' death and resurrection is the crowning glory of Judaism itself.

Do Jews go to heaven? I would not presume to lay down any criteria for who God chooses as his people. I find it hard to believe that supporters of Manchester United could ever be part of God's Holy Kingdom, but otherwise who knows?

I don't believe that any one people has discovered the "True" God, if there is one. I can't say that there is one, and I can't say that there isn't. But if a truly omniscient, omnipotent God existed, he would be perfectly loving and just. Therefore, he would judge me on my actions and character, not what my beliefs are. And using that frame of mind, every man, woman and child has a chance at Heaven, and not just those that believe in a God from a small tribe in Palestine.

If you only believe in the God of the Bible, you forsake the majority of the Earth, and cannot possibly be right.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong, too? Unfortunately, there is no way to test who is right and know for sure. But logic and reasoning is the better bet, IMO, not blind faith.

(September 9, 2013 at 7:00 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: I don't believe that any one people has discovered the "True" God, if there is one. I can't say that there is one, and I can't say that there isn't. But if a truly omniscient, omnipotent God existed, he would be perfectly loving and just. Therefore, he would judge me on my actions and character, not what my beliefs are. And using that frame of mind, every man, woman and child has a chance at Heaven, and not just those that believe in a God from a small tribe in Palestine.

If you only believe in the God of the Bible, you forsake the majority of the Earth, and cannot possibly be right.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong, too? Unfortunately, there is no way to test who is right and know for sure. But logic and reasoning is the better bet, IMO, not blind faith.

Christ came to bring salvation to the whole world, isn't this one of your desires from God. Another is God would judge your life if you do not want to believe in Christ, that's exactly what He will do so now another of your desires of God have been met. I personally chose Christ as the sacrifice for my sin. For those who do not choose Christ they will become their own sacrifice, and if you do not measure up to God's standard .... well just consider, you put yourself up as the sacrifice when you reject Christ.

GC

Quote:established in the time of Moses through the Law

And your evidence that "moses" ever existed is? .........................


(crickets chirping.......)

(September 9, 2013 at 10:21 am)Drich Wrote: then use it.

How if you indeed have a brain can you say any of the things you have asserted above that the bible does not support, and then hold your conclusions from the straw man you have constructed against the God of the bible?

Maybe you should have said you have an imagination, and will illogically use your imaginings to give yourself a reason not to worship God.

You seem to believe that one must agree with what the Bible says in order to correctly understand what it depicts. I shouldn't need to tell you everything that's wrong with this belief.

I don't know, maybe its because I worked with so many jews and have a far greater respect for them than these xtian shitballs that I can't stand by while morons like G-C tell jews how to be jews.

Why don't you let their rabbi's handle the hard thinking, G-C. You are not up to the job.

http://www.thejc.com/judaism/rabbi-i-hav...ewish-hell

Quote: the idea of a person suffering in agony forever does not sit easily with the notion of a loving God. You will be pleased to know, therefore, that the Jewish concept is very different. For a start, whereas Christianity has a clear road-map of the hereafter, with signposts to heaven and hell, and stopping off points in limbo and perdition, Judaism is much more cautious about what happens next.

To be blunt, we do not know, and those who claim to know are, at best, speculating and, at worst, deliberately misleading.

Quote: Throughout this rabbinic literature there are various descriptions of the nature and punishments of Gehinom mostly associated with fire. Many of these descriptions find similar parallels in Hellenistic literature and the punishments described reflect judicial procedures at the time of their composition such as the concept of “measure for measure”.

There is a key argument in the Talmud regarding the length of sentence in Gehinom for sinners and the widely accepted view is that with rare exception the longest sentence does not exceed twelve months. In this sense Gehinom is more like purgatory than eternal damnation.

(September 9, 2013 at 9:53 pm)Godschild Wrote: Christ came to bring salvation to the whole world, isn't this one of your desires from God. Another is God would judge your life if you do not want to believe in Christ, that's exactly what He will do so now another of your desires of God have been met. I personally chose Christ as the sacrifice for my sin. For those who do not choose Christ they will become their own sacrifice, and if you do not measure up to God's standard .... well just consider, you put yourself up as the sacrifice when you reject Christ.

GC

John 3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Mark 6:11: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

So, basically, believe in Jesus or be damned. If your city doesn't believe in Christ than they're going to be pulverized. That is your worldwide salvation from Christ? That has nothing to do with judging me for my actions instead of my beliefs. That is "selective salvation" to coin a new term. It is favoritism. If you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, you will suffer for all eternity, there is no standard to meet. You can be the Dalai Lama, it doesn't matter. No Christian faith = no salvation. That is unfair, and just a tad evil. Okay, really evil.

GC, you're a good man, but you rarely seem to look at the facts, and instead just go by what you believe, not what you know. Back up your statements. I know it's hard to defend a tyrant, but you can do it!

That's because he doesn't know shit....but he believes a great deal!

(September 9, 2013 at 4:31 pm)Drich Wrote:

(September 9, 2013 at 2:46 pm)max-greece Wrote: 12000 of each of 12 tribes - 144,000 in total.

What I love is that these numbers come up all over the place. I had a chat years ago with some Jehovah's Witnesses who told me there were only 144,000 places in Heaven (not sure why - could be a parking problem).

Everyone else apparently gets 1,000 years of ecstasy (which is a lot of tablets - had anyone checked out the supply?)

Anyway - those JW's are going to be really pissed off to find out the Jews have been allocated all the seats. Oi Vey!

Well, Revelations clearly says 12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel. Unless a specific JW is actually an undercover Jew from a given tribe, then there will be no JWs among that 144,000.

Matter of fact I do not think an JWs EVER have to worry about the parking situation in Heaven.

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(September 9, 2013 at 1:52 pm)Captain Colostomy Wrote: I fucking hate cults, and the drivel their brainwashed followers regurgitate.

Thanks, Drich, for the reminder.

How many captins are there? are you #2 or #3?

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