(September 16, 2013 at 11:34 pm)Godschild Wrote: The Kingdom of Christ is the Christian Church, and it was going before those He spoke to were dead. Jesus is the ruler of the church and the lives it encompasses.

GC

You get that from this:

“Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matthew 16:28

I don't know GC - that seems more than a stretch to me. Surely its a reference to the second coming which did not happen in any of their lifetimes - unless one or more of them is secretly still alive today....

(September 16, 2013 at 4:11 pm)Captain Colostomy Wrote: Regarding the OT...if it doesn't aid with gay bashing, Christians claim to be under no obligation to entertain it.

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(September 16, 2013 at 4:24 pm)Drich Wrote: Hold on cowboy, Christ says "28 “Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

So the burden of proof on you to establish that Christ's Kingdom did not come as described before all of those men died.

An IMO simpler explanation is to consider "see." He didn't need to include that. He could have said "there are some standing here who shall not taste death till the Son of Man comes in His kingdom.” The literal reading of the passage was fulfilled in what John saw and recorded in Revelation. Some people consider it fulfilled in the transfiguration, which immediately follows the above verse.

Drich and GC

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This passage regarding "there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom" has led rise to the "wandering Jew" legend. Some people believe that one of those who witnessed Jesus' trial was doomed to keep walking the earth until Jesus' second coming. So somewhere out there's supposedly a 2000-year-old Jew who can't die until the second coming. I almost expected Drich to bring this up "the burden of proof is on you to show that every man standing there listened to Jesus actually died and one of them isn't still alive somewhere," but he took it in another direction. Apparently the second coming really did happen 2000 years ago and all these Christians waiting for Jesus to come back are all heretics.

(September 16, 2013 at 5:03 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(September 16, 2013 at 4:24 pm)Drich Wrote: So the burden of proof on you to establish that Christ's Kingdom did not come as described before all of those men died.

What the fuck? Sometimes people really don't understand the burden of proof. It's never someone's obligation to prove that something didn't happen or doesn't exist.

The claim was made Jesus did not do "X" if the claim is indeed a claim and not a question then it is upon the person making the claim to support it.

And appearently you did not know that so the answer to your question is no, some people really don't understand the burden of proof.

(September 17, 2013 at 9:39 am)Drich Wrote:

(September 16, 2013 at 5:03 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: What the fuck? Sometimes people really don't understand the burden of proof. It's never someone's obligation to prove that something didn't happen or doesn't exist.

The claim was made Jesus did not do "X" if the claim is indeed a claim and not a question then it is upon the person making the claim to support it.

And appearently you did not know that so the answer to your question is no, some people really don't understand the burden of proof.

(September 17, 2013 at 9:39 am)Drich Wrote: some people really don't understand the burden of proof.

You owe me a new irony meter because mine just blew up.

(September 17, 2013 at 9:31 am)Doubting Thomas Wrote: Drich and GC

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This passage regarding "there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom" has led rise to the "wandering Jew" legend. Some people believe that one of those who witnessed Jesus' trial was doomed to keep walking the earth until Jesus' second coming. So somewhere out there's supposedly a 2000-year-old Jew who can't die until the second coming. I almost expected Drich to bring this up "the burden of proof is on you to show that every man standing there listened to Jesus actually died and one of them isn't still alive somewhere," but he took it in another direction. Apparently the second coming really did happen 2000 years ago and all these Christians waiting for Jesus to come back are all heretics.

Please explain how I'm wrong.

GC

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(September 17, 2013 at 1:05 am)max-greece Wrote:

(September 16, 2013 at 11:34 pm)Godschild Wrote: The Kingdom of Christ is the Christian Church, and it was going before those He spoke to were dead. Jesus is the ruler of the church and the lives it encompasses.

GC

You get that from this:

“Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matthew 16:28

I don't know GC - that seems more than a stretch to me. Surely its a reference to the second coming which did not happen in any of their lifetimes - unless one or more of them is secretly still alive today....

Matthew 16:24-28 are the verses that go together, Jesus is describing salvation which brings people into the Kingdom. Without the people there would be no Kingdom, an empty Kingdom is no Kingdom at all. The people are the church and the Kingdom is the church ie. the people.

GC

(September 16, 2013 at 5:04 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote:

(September 16, 2013 at 4:24 pm)Drich Wrote: Hold on cowboy, Christ says "28 “Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

So the burden of proof on you to establish that Christ's Kingdom did not come as described before all of those men died.

A kingdom is a pretty substantial thing. The earliest written history of Jesus comes from Galatians, arguably written in the year 48 CE. That's about 20 years after the "death" of Jesus. The Jews have no record of an independent kingdom since the Babylonian invasion of 434 BCE. Judea was undeniably ruled by the Romans in the first century CE.

What I'm getting at is that Jesus did nothing to bring glory and rebirth to the Jewish people. He was no king when he was alive, and he didn't return to Earth in the lifetimes of his apostles with a new kingdom. Spiritually, some could call him a king, but most of them would be Gentiles from the 2nd century on. There was very little acceptance of Jesus in the Jewish world. The "existence" of Jesus did nothing for the Jews, and almost nil for those that believed in him before they died. He failed in his promise. He did not return with a new kingdom before all of his original believers died.

Christ was no king, and never will be.

Christ Identifies himself as a King and refers to what He meant by His 'kingdom' when he spoke to pilate before his death.. that's as much of a hint as I am willing to give. If you or anyone else indeed want to have an on topic version of your previous assertion.

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(September 17, 2013 at 12:17 am)Minimalist Wrote: Hey, Drippy....

verse 27 says "27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. "

When did that shit happen? How come everyone missed it? Maybe the JWs are right and your boy snuck back in 1914?

when has it not?

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(September 17, 2013 at 1:05 am)max-greece Wrote:

(September 16, 2013 at 11:34 pm)Godschild Wrote: The Kingdom of Christ is the Christian Church, and it was going before those He spoke to were dead. Jesus is the ruler of the church and the lives it encompasses.

GC

You get that from this:

“Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matthew 16:28

I don't know GC - that seems more than a stretch to me. Surely its a reference to the second coming which did not happen in any of their lifetimes - unless one or more of them is secretly still alive today....

your confusing two very different concepts.

The establishment of Christ 'church'/kingdom where Christ rules, and the end of the age of man.

(September 17, 2013 at 10:57 am)Godschild Wrote: Please explain how I'm wrong.

Please explain how you are right. Sounds like you're once again stretching biblical passages to mean what you want them to mean.

It's not just that passage, there are many more where Jesus specifically tells people that the end of the world and his second coming will occur in their lifetimes. In fact, Matthew 24 in its entirety is about Jesus making predictions about what will happen during the end times, and after that he says "This generation shall not pass from the earth until all these be fulfilled."