(September 21, 2013 at 12:59 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Except that dictatorships are built on the whims of the dictators, not the desires of the people under their thumb. That's sort of... the main characteristic of a dictatorship. Since you've got absolutely no basis for saying that any creature in the garden would want to sin or not- and given that pesky human free will that led to the fall anyway- it's reasonable to think that that darn sinful nature would lead to... well, sin.

The sin nature wasn't there before the first sin. Do you know anything about this subject?

Quote:But that's not germane, anyway; you're the one so hard for dictionary definitions, and I posted one. According to it, god fills the criteria for an oppressor; a ruler with the power to actively oppress if he wanted, applying unjust rules to a group of people with no chance of appeal.

Except that wasn't the definition. Amazing how far you'll stretch these things.

Quote:You are. No power at all is exercised in prohibiting people from doing things they don't want to do.

How do you know every single person doesn't want to do a certain action?

(September 21, 2013 at 1:05 pm)gilbertc06 Wrote:

(September 21, 2013 at 6:37 am)John V Wrote: Yes, that horrible oppression of being allowed to do anything you want except to eat the fruit of one particular tree.

Including genocide, slavery, and everything else? Yeah.

John still cant grasp the reality of the way the character is written.

As a literary device the "God" character reflected the feudal "divine right of kings". Kings are dictators just like Kim Jong Un. They will protect minions but kill all dissenters and those who doubt or question.

So the holy books reflected the tribalism of the time it was written.

(September 21, 2013 at 1:32 pm)gilbertc06 Wrote:

Quote:You are. No power at all is exercised in prohibiting people from doing things they don't want to do.

How do you know every single person doesn't want to do a certain action?

Because there were only two people, there were not given rules against those things, and they didn't do them.

(September 21, 2013 at 1:45 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(September 21, 2013 at 1:05 pm)gilbertc06 Wrote: Including genocide, slavery, and everything else? Yeah.

John still cant grasp the reality of the way the character is written.

As a literary device the "God" character reflected the feudal "divine right of kings". Kings are dictators just like Kim Jong Un. They will protect minions but kill all dissenters and those who doubt or question.

So the holy books reflected the tribalism of the time it was written.

I also saw the act of eating the fruit as more of an awakening. God prohibits it for no good reason. And when they do they realize they have been oppressed and that they should question everything dictators like God say to them from now on. And that is why God banishes them just like a dictator would today, or just outright kill them.

---

(September 21, 2013 at 1:49 pm)John V Wrote:

(September 21, 2013 at 1:32 pm)gilbertc06 Wrote: How do you know every single person doesn't want to do a certain action?

Because there were only two people, there were not given rules against those things, and they didn't do them.

But I'm talking more in general. Even if Adam and Eve didn't do them in the story, given the allotted time they might end up doing it.

(September 21, 2013 at 1:45 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(September 21, 2013 at 1:05 pm)gilbertc06 Wrote: Including genocide, slavery, and everything else? Yeah.

John still cant grasp the reality of the way the character is written.

As a literary device the "God" character reflected the feudal "divine right of kings". Kings are dictators just like Kim Jong Un. They will protect minions but kill all dissenters and those who doubt or question.

So the holy books reflected the tribalism of the time it was written.

God worked and works through history, He never intended to change it, He wanted man to, but we did not so He sent His Son into history to redeem man.

GC

(September 21, 2013 at 2:03 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(September 21, 2013 at 1:45 pm)Brian37 Wrote: John still cant grasp the reality of the way the character is written.

As a literary device the "God" character reflected the feudal "divine right of kings". Kings are dictators just like Kim Jong Un. They will protect minions but kill all dissenters and those who doubt or question.

So the holy books reflected the tribalism of the time it was written.

God worked and works through history, He never intended to change it, He wanted man to, but we did not so He sent His Son into history to redeem man.

GC

Bullshit. It was written by ignorant people to lead ignorant people and reflected the culture of that time. Just like for 3,000 years the Egyptians centered their beliefs around worship of the sun as a god.

(September 21, 2013 at 2:03 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(September 21, 2013 at 1:45 pm)Brian37 Wrote: John still cant grasp the reality of the way the character is written.

As a literary device the "God" character reflected the feudal "divine right of kings". Kings are dictators just like Kim Jong Un. They will protect minions but kill all dissenters and those who doubt or question.

So the holy books reflected the tribalism of the time it was written.

God worked and works through history, He never intended to change it, He wanted man to, but we did not so He sent His Son into history to redeem man.

GC

Redeem man from what exactly? It obviously can't be things we know of such as illness, murder, etc...

So what exactly did he save us from?

(September 21, 2013 at 2:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(September 21, 2013 at 2:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: God worked and works through history, He never intended to change it, He wanted man to, but we did not so He sent His Son into history to redeem man.

GC

Bullshit. It was written by ignorant people to lead ignorant people and reflected the culture of that time. Just like for 3,000 years the Egyptians centered their beliefs around worship of the sun as a god.

Brian37 is right, GC. If you study the religions of the world, and not just stay focused on one, you will see that religion is extremely cultural. Look at the Taoists, the Hindus, any Native American religion. The rules and heroes of every religion on Earth are affected immensely by the culture they come from, and not some undeniable source that everyone agrees with. That's why there are 30,000 different forms of Christianity. The only truth they share is that none of them know the truth.

(September 21, 2013 at 2:17 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote:

(September 21, 2013 at 2:06 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Bullshit. It was written by ignorant people to lead ignorant people and reflected the culture of that time. Just like for 3,000 years the Egyptians centered their beliefs around worship of the sun as a god.

Brian37 is right, GC. If you study the religions of the world, and not just stay focused on one, you will see that religion is extremely cultural. Look at the Taoists, the Hindus, any Native American religion. The rules and heroes of every religion on Earth are affected immensely by the culture they come from, and not some undeniable source that everyone agrees with. That's why there are 30,000 different forms of Christianity. The only truth they share is that none of them know the truth.

Furthermore if you look at religious literature through structuralism you can EASILY see the ideologies that the culture wanted to push for their own agenda.

If there really was an omniscience, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent god then his "word" would neither look nor sound anything like hours.