(September 25, 2013 at 5:30 pm)Drich Wrote: 4) to show you that you are not in a position to identify evidence when it is presented. For if you can not define what you are looking for, then it stands to reason your not really looking to accept anything.

Drich.... Aren't you the one who wants to show us that such entity exists?

We (at least, I) are not looking for that entity you call god. We merely look at everything we can find... and out of all the wonderful things we've seen in this Universe, nothing seems to qualify as what you call god...
Unless we look in the minds of people... But if we look there, we can also find Darth Vader, Harry Potter... I'm sure you've heard it all before...

So, if you want us to acknowledge that such an entity exists, you're the one who has to define it and present it in a way that we can not mistake for "it's all in your head".
Until then, it's all in your head.

(September 25, 2013 at 5:50 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Drich.... Aren't you the one who wants to show us that such entity exists?

No. Not my job. That task is something God the Holy Spirit owns. My job begins and ends with showing you how to obtain a measure of the Holy Spirit.

Quote:We (at least, I) are not looking for that entity you call god. We merely look at everything we can find... and out of all the wonderful things we've seen in this Universe, nothing seems to qualify as what you call god...

if God is the creator of the natural universe, then everything in creation points to God. Why would God create all of the laws and processes that govern the natural world, just so He can circumvent them each and every time He wants something Done? Does it not stand to reason that if God created X then wouldn't he use X to accomplish what He sets out to do? Why create X if you are going to use process Y? Why not simply create Y to accomplish your goals?

Quote:So, if you want us to acknowledge that such an entity exists, you're the one who has to define it and present it in a way that we can not mistake for "it's all in your head".
Until then, it's all in your head.

i don't want any of you to do anything that your not already doing, unless your truly want proof of God. If you want Proof of God you must first Humble yourselves before Him, and Ask, Seek, and knock as outlined in Luke 11.

(September 25, 2013 at 5:30 pm)Drich Wrote: Are these not your words?

Zazzy Wrote:I'm an evolutionary biologist by trade,

According to the last post on page 3 these are indeed your words. Then you tell me your a high school science teacher on post 4 page 11.

The term by trade means as a profession. To say you are 'x' by trade means your primary responsiablity is 'x' and not grading papers, and cleaning lab stations for the next class. Even if evolutionary biology was all you taught it still does not make you an evolutionary biologist 'by trade.' It makes you a teacher by trade.

Again absolutly nothing wrong with being a teacher as far as this discussion goes. For that matter there is nothing wrong with being caught in a lie, as far as this discussion goes. I am perfectly willing to forget the whole thing so long as you are and do not insist that I must adopt your page 3 persona.

Please read that post again to discover what I do now.
I can't figure out if you aren't good at reading, or if you are simply dishonest.

I'll repost the same thing, only with bold text to help you out. Read it this time and then you can apologize to me.

Quote:Drich, after reading your latest barrage of incivility, I wonder if it is possible to have an honest discussion with you. Since you are worried about my bona fides: yes, I was a high school teacher for many years, before I did 6 years of university teaching and graduate school coursework and bench research in evolutionary molecular genetics, but I have continued to work with teens throughout that time to improve science education. You really, really don't want to believe that I am knowledgeable on the subject, and that's OK with me. But please don't insult high school teachers- many of whom are highly educated trained scientists who choose to work with a younger age group.

(September 25, 2013 at 5:57 pm)Drich Wrote:

(September 25, 2013 at 5:50 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Drich.... Aren't you the one who wants to show us that such entity exists?

No. Not my job. That task is something God the Holy Spirit owns. My job begins and ends with showing you how to obtain a measure of the Holy Spirit.

yeah.. about that... you're not succeeding.

(September 25, 2013 at 5:57 pm)Drich Wrote:

Quote:We (at least, I) are not looking for that entity you call god. We merely look at everything we can find... and out of all the wonderful things we've seen in this Universe, nothing seems to qualify as what you call god...

if God is the creator of the natural universe, then everything in creation points to God. Why would God create all of the laws and processes that govern the natural world, just so He can circumvent them each and every time He wants something Done? Does it not stand to reason that if God created X then wouldn't he use X to accomplish what He sets out to do? Why create X if you are going to use process Y? Why not simply create Y to accomplish your goals?

Aye... method X is failing to work on this god of yours...

(September 25, 2013 at 5:57 pm)Drich Wrote:

Quote:So, if you want us to acknowledge that such an entity exists, you're the one who has to define it and present it in a way that we can not mistake for "it's all in your head".
Until then, it's all in your head.

i don't want any of you to do anything that your not already doing, unless your truly want proof of God. If you want Proof of God you must first Humble yourselves before Him, and Ask, Seek, and knock as outlined in Luke 11.

And that method becomes indistinguishable from "it's all in your mind". So it's not a valid method to determine the existence of an entity.
Can you understand this?

On rereading that, I bet you don't don't know what bench research is. It's doing experiments at a lab bench every day- you know- scientific experiments? That yield data? That we then publish? Like a hmmm... what's the word.... SCIENTIST?

But although I'm not officially a high school teacher anymore and haven't been for some time, I still spend lots of time in high schools teaching teachers and students BENCH RESEARCH SKILLS. So I still consider myself a high school teacher at heart.

Waiting for that apology.

(September 25, 2013 at 6:31 pm)Zazzy Wrote: On rereading that, I bet you don't don't know what bench research is. It's doing experiments at a lab bench every day- you know- scientific experiments? That yield data? That we then publish? Like a hmmm... what's the word.... SCIENTIST?

But although I'm not officially a high school teacher anymore and haven't been for some time, I still spend lots of time in high schools teaching teachers and students BENCH RESEARCH SKILLS. So I still consider myself a high school teacher at heart.

Waiting for that apology.

We don't need more science in class, we need more bibles. Science is for nerds.(note to self: did I think that, or type it)

(September 25, 2013 at 6:31 pm)Zazzy Wrote: On rereading that, I bet you don't don't know what bench research is. It's doing experiments at a lab bench every day- you know- scientific experiments? That yield data? That we then publish? Like a hmmm... what's the word.... SCIENTIST?

But although I'm not officially a high school teacher anymore and haven't been for some time, I still spend lots of time in high schools teaching teachers and students BENCH RESEARCH SKILLS. So I still consider myself a high school teacher at heart.

Waiting for that apology.

You've moved the goal posts. We are. NOT speaking of bench science. You claimed your trade was as an evolutionary biologist. Then you said you were a high school science teacher, now you have claimed and awarded yourself the generic term scientist, in hopes that a mechanic would not be able to discern the difference between a general descriptive term, and a very specific job title held in the field of science.

I'm sorry (yes that was a taunt) but I am not going to be able to give you your apology. If anyone deserves an apology it is me. But again I am not concerned for formalities, or the labels you seem to be obsessed with. Which means I am more than willing to forego the facade of civility, for the sake of putting this conversation back on track.

Besides you being as smart as you are should understand the exchange of pleasantries, and platitudes at this point in this conversation upon demand, is just to establish who the alpha in the conversation really is. Why would I do this after just leveling the playing field?

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(September 25, 2013 at 6:31 pm)Zazzy Wrote: On rereading that, I bet you don't don't know what bench research is. It's doing experiments at a lab bench every day- you know- scientific experiments? That yield data? That we then publish? Like a hmmm... what's the word.... SCIENTIST?

But although I'm not officially a high school teacher anymore and haven't been for some time, I still spend lots of time in high schools teaching teachers and students BENCH RESEARCH SKILLS. So I still consider myself a high school teacher at heart.

Waiting for that apology.

You've moved the goal posts. We are. NOT speaking of bench science. You claimed your trade was as an evolutionary biologist. Then you said you were a high school science teacher, now you have claimed and awarded yourself the generic term scientist, in hopes that a mechanic would not be able to discern the difference between a general descriptive term, and a very specific job title held in the field of science.

I'm sorry (yes that was a taunt) but I am not going to be able to give you your apology. If anyone deserves an apology it is me. But again I am not concerned for formalities, or the labels you seem to be obsessed with. Which means I am more than willing to forego the facade of civility, for the sake of putting this conversation back on track.

Besides you being as smart as you are should understand the exchange of pleasantries, and platitudes at this point in this conversation upon demand, is just to establish who the alpha in the conversation really is. Why would I do this after just leveling the playing field?

(September 25, 2013 at 7:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(September 25, 2013 at 6:31 pm)Zazzy Wrote: On rereading that, I bet you don't don't know what bench research is. It's doing experiments at a lab bench every day- you know- scientific experiments? That yield data? That we then publish? Like a hmmm... what's the word.... SCIENTIST?

But although I'm not officially a high school teacher anymore and haven't been for some time, I still spend lots of time in high schools teaching teachers and students BENCH RESEARCH SKILLS. So I still consider myself a high school teacher at heart.

Waiting for that apology.

We don't need more science in class, we need more bibles. Science is for nerds.(note to self: did I think that, or type it)

Who are you and what have you done with Brian?

(September 25, 2013 at 7:44 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(September 25, 2013 at 7:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote: We don't need more science in class, we need more bibles. Science is for nerds.(note to self: did I think that, or type it)

Who are you and what have you done with Brian?

(September 25, 2013 at 7:44 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(September 25, 2013 at 7:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote: We don't need more science in class, we need more bibles. Science is for nerds.(note to self: did I think that, or type it)

Who are you and what have you done with Brian?

I am still here. I just cant take any theist's claims seriously. So was employing a little sarcasm there.

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(September 25, 2013 at 7:50 pm)Drich Wrote:

(September 25, 2013 at 7:44 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Who are you and what have you done with Brian?

Said the person with an imaginary friend.

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Quote:If you want Proof of God you must first Humble yourselves before Him, and Ask, Seek, and knock as outlined in Luke 11.

No, that is just a book, and a very poorly written one at that. Took over 1,000 years to complete with over 40 authors(gospels written after the fact), with books left out of the completed versions.

Why should I "humble" myself to a guy whose only goal is self serving narcissism in any case?

Quoting a holy book to prove a holy book is circular reasoning. Jews and Muslims quote their books too.