(October 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: I will agree that the for the objects we know were designed, we know that they are designed by mankind.

And we do not know what is the cause of DNA, RNA, cells, or living organisms.

So if we don't know the cause, by your own admission, then where do you get off demanding that the cause is god?

Quote:But the workings of cells and DNA are to ordered, complex, and interrelated to have arisen by random chemical reactions.

How would you know? This contention implies that you know the dividing line between something that is too complex to be created naturally, and something that isn't, so please, instead of being vague, explain what that line is, how you know that's where the line is, and what the differentiating factors between the two sides are.

Quote:Everything you just noted is based on the no God assumption.

But that assumption will not stand up to all the facts and will therefore be refuted/.

This isn't an answer. This is just you saying you're right.

Quote:Of course if anyone else had been there they would have been deceived too. So God is just to pass it on.

Translation: "You're right the bible says that, but no because god."

What you're arguing for now is a god punishing us for sins we didn't commit. Sins that nobody committed. Are you serious?

Quote:Math, Statistics, Physics, Biology and simple logic are all that is needed.

I take it you don't have a response to my information about giraffes, and you're too embarrassed about being pulled up on your "problem" for evolution to admit it.

So, what qualifications do you have in biology, cosmology, physics, and other branches of science? How much study have you done, before you came here to call your posts irrefutable proof?

(October 2, 2013 at 12:29 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote:

(October 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: But the workings of cells and DNA are to ordered, complex, and interrelated to have arisen by random chemical reactions.

Do you have any evidence to support this assertion?

Note that evolution is not "arising by random chemical reactions," so this is a strawman which isn't asserted as an alternative explanation, so disproving it gets you nothing. Moreover, showing that life didn't originate this way does not automatimatically lead to the conclusion of design, as that is an argument from ignorance and invalid, unless you can demonstrate that the only alternatives are design or by "random chemical reactions" and that these are the only two possibilities. (Which we already know they aren't.)

(October 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Everything you just noted is based on the no God assumption.

But that assumption will not stand up to all the facts and will therefore be refuted/.

Assumption? I prefer to think of it as inductive reasoning.

What facts do you have that will defeat my "assumption?" I have shown that a universe without the Christian God is highly plausible, if not probable. Show me proof that we were created 6000 years ago in Babylonia, then populated the Earth in less than 2000 years, even though there is evidence that we have been in existence for hundreds of thousands of years, all over the Earth. I WANT YOUR FACTS, NOT YOUR SPECULATION! Do you have ANY?

You want my facts? Pick up a high school textbook.

(October 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Math, Statistics, Physics, Biology and simple logic are all that is needed.

Wait -- biology? Didn't you just tell us how the majority of biologists were mistaken (or did that only apply to specialists in genetics)? Which biologists are you taking your cues from? And don't fucking come back with those sorry Jesus fanboys at the Discovery Institute.

I stopped reading after, "walk around and point to the objects..."

Not this again.

(October 2, 2013 at 12:40 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(October 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Math, Statistics, Physics, Biology and simple logic are all that is needed.

Wait -- biology? Didn't you just tell us how the majority of biologists were mistaken (or did that only apply to specialists in genetics)? Which biologists are you taking your cues from? And don't fucking come back with those sorry Jesus fanboys at the Discovery Institute.

Mistaken about the origin of DNA, cells, life, etc.

Not mistaken about DNA, RNA, proteins, cell division, enzymes, protein folding, etc.

So the scientists are right when they announce findings that don't come into (apparent) conflict with your book, but wrong when they tread on its turf?

(October 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote:

(October 2, 2013 at 12:08 pm)Searching4truth Wrote: your Bible says one man can't be punished for another man's sins therefore that shows inconsistency for everyone after Adam, oh and Jesus

Of course if anyone else had been there they would have been deceived too. So God is just to pass it on.

So you are asserting that god either...

a) ...designed humans so badly that they could not resist being deceived

or

b) ...intended for them to be deceived at the very start

So god is either incompetent or evil. Is that it?

Savedbygracethrufaith is demonstrating why the American education system is such a failure.

(October 2, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(October 2, 2013 at 12:23 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Of course if anyone else had been there they would have been deceived too. So God is just to pass it on.

So you are asserting that god either...

a) ...designed humans so badly that they could not resist being deceived

or

b) ...intended for them to be deceived at the very start

So god is either incompetent or evil. Is that it?

Just that God made man with free will and not robots.
To truly give free will is to allow man to disobey and reject God.

Even 1/3 the angles who have free will rebelled.

---

(October 2, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Stimbo Wrote: So the scientists are right when they announce findings that don't come into (apparent) conflict with your book, but wrong when they tread on its turf?

In the end, it would be true that if their findings actually conflict with the holy Bible, they would be wrong.