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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 11, 2013 at 6:31 pm
(October 11, 2013 at 6:24 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: (October 10, 2013 at 6:34 pm)pocaracas Wrote: You know?... I recently watched a few videos by a guy called.... hmmm, what was it?... Krauss!... that's the man.... It hinted at a friend of his which got a nobel prize for his work... on... virtual particles...
Well, he claims that he calculated the total energy of the Universe and it is..... ZERO!
he calculated the energy of the whole universe and got exactly 0.
So if the energy of the universe is not exactly 0, the Big Bang is false then. Else why bring it up. Then Quantum ChromoDynamics would be a bit less right about the structure of matter... some more tweaking would be required in the theory...
I wouldn't go as far as saying that the big bang is false.
Universal expansion is an observable fact, rewind the clock and you arrive at a big bang condition... that's indisputable.
The details, however, are still under much research.
However the recent Higgs boson discovery at CERN hints to the accuracy of the standard model and so QCD is correct.
(October 11, 2013 at 6:24 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: But he could not have calculated the energy of the universe, since not all of the universe is even observable. Not directly observable, but we can see the effects of much of the non-visible material out there.
The amount of material has been calculated. So its energy is easily obtainable.
Of course, astrophysicists work a lot with order of magnitudes... the detailed account of every Joule of energy is impossible for a human being.
(October 11, 2013 at 6:24 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Besides all observations show the universe does have a mass-energy that is not 0, so the Big Bang is falsified until we get an exact 0. Ever heard of anti-matter? It has negative energy.
And dark matter? It's.... strange....
The night is dark and full of mysteries... let's not pretend it's a bright day when all we can see is the sliver of an almost new moon.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 11, 2013 at 10:25 pm
(October 11, 2013 at 6:31 pm)pocaracas Wrote: (October 11, 2013 at 6:24 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Besides all observations show the universe does have a mass-energy that is not 0, so the Big Bang is falsified until we get an exact 0. Ever heard of anti-matter? It has negative energy.
And dark matter? It's.... strange....
The night is dark and full of mysteries... let's not pretend it's a bright day when all we can see is the sliver of an almost new moon.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 12, 2013 at 2:35 am
(This post was last modified: October 12, 2013 at 2:50 am by snowtracks.)
(October 10, 2013 at 5:09 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: OK, pray tell, what scientific laws and principles does the Big Bang theory violate?
nothing but snide remarks from this guy.
[quote='SavedByGraceThruFaith' pid='521993' dateline='1381414268']
=========================
the U. itself is an effect. the principle of causality says cause is alway greater than the effect and always precedes the effect. no human has ever seen this principle violated.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 12, 2013 at 2:58 am
(October 10, 2013 at 11:05 am)max-greece Wrote: OK - The universe (simple version):
There was a mummy Universe and a daddy Universe and they got together and after a big bang a baby universe was borne.
And the baby universe grew up to be a big universe just like mummy and daddy.
hahahaha what is a funny concidence is that some physicists have hypothesized that this universe came about as a collision of 2 other universes.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 12, 2013 at 3:48 am
(October 12, 2013 at 2:35 am)snowtracks Wrote: the U. itself is an effect. the principle of causality says cause is alway greater than the effect and always precedes the effect. no human has ever seen this principle violated.
Now all you have to do is explain how someting can precede something else when time does not exist.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 12, 2013 at 3:54 am
(October 11, 2013 at 12:59 pm)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: I do know.
No you don't.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 12, 2013 at 3:55 am
(This post was last modified: October 12, 2013 at 4:02 am by Bucky Ball.)
(October 11, 2013 at 6:24 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: So if the energy of the universe is not exactly 0, the Big Bang is false then. Else why bring it up.
But he could not have calculated the energy of the universe, since not all of the universe is even observable.
Besides all observations show the universe does have a mass-energy that is not 0, so the Big Bang is falsified until we get an exact 0.
Wrong again deluded one. Sucks to be you.
Gravity exists, (please go jump off the nearest, tallest building, ASAP, if you need to verify that). Gravity can have a a negative value, (which you would know if you ever took a science class.) Matter and anti-matter exist. They collide and annihilate. That does not imply they did not both exist. The sum of zero of the universe does not break any laws, or invalidate the reality of the positive and negative components.
One can infer the sum of Dark Energy and Dark Matter, by their affects on galaxies. Those are big words for you, so don't strain yourself. You clearly are an ignorant little troll.
(October 10, 2013 at 11:05 am)max-greece Wrote: OK - The universe (simple version):
There was a mummy Universe and a daddy Universe and they got together and after a big bang a baby universe was borne.
And the baby universe grew up to be a big universe just like mummy and daddy.
The question is, "Was Jason Bourne born or borne ?"
(Oh wait ... both).
Never mind.
Carry on. 
meow
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell 
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 12, 2013 at 6:28 am
(October 12, 2013 at 3:55 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: (October 11, 2013 at 6:24 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: So if the energy of the universe is not exactly 0, the Big Bang is false then. Else why bring it up.
But he could not have calculated the energy of the universe, since not all of the universe is even observable.
Besides all observations show the universe does have a mass-energy that is not 0, so the Big Bang is falsified until we get an exact 0.
Wrong again deluded one. Sucks to be you.
Gravity exists, (please go jump off the nearest, tallest building, ASAP, if you need to verify that). Gravity can have a a negative value, (which you would know if you ever took a science class.) Matter and anti-matter exist. They collide and annihilate. That does not imply they did not both exist. The sum of zero of the universe does not break any laws, or invalidate the reality of the positive and negative components.
One can infer the sum of Dark Energy and Dark Matter, by their affects on galaxies. Those are big words for you, so don't strain yourself. You clearly are an ignorant little troll.
(October 10, 2013 at 11:05 am)max-greece Wrote: OK - The universe (simple version):
There was a mummy Universe and a daddy Universe and they got together and after a big bang a baby universe was borne.
And the baby universe grew up to be a big universe just like mummy and daddy.
The question is, "Was Jason Bourne born or borne ?"
(Oh wait ... both).
Never mind.
Carry on.
meow
No answer to the origin of the universe then.
The same contradiction holds.
It the universe comes from nothing, that violates a number of scientific laws and principles.
If it always existed, all order should have vanished an infinite time ago.
The contradiction exists.
If it cam from something before, where did that come from?
And the same contradiction holds for it.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 12, 2013 at 10:04 am
(October 12, 2013 at 6:28 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: It the universe comes from nothing, that violates a number of scientific laws and principles. Maybe not... conservation of energy seems to check out! 
(October 12, 2013 at 6:28 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: If it always existed, all order should have vanished an infinite time ago.
The contradiction exists. Maybe we're on the sweet spot...
(October 12, 2013 at 6:28 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: If it cam from something before, where did that come from?
And the same contradiction holds for it.
I don't know.... no one knows.
Maybe the infinite space-time just has this property of generating virtual particles which... sometimes.... turn into real fields and hence particles... and a new Universe.
And, since space-time can be infinite, it is conceivable that many many many such universes exist... perhaps infinite universes.
But I don't know. This may be as much conjecture as saying there's a conscious entity apart from the fabric of space-time which can create universes with his will power alone... We then have to ask where did such an entity come from?
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
October 12, 2013 at 10:39 am
(October 12, 2013 at 6:28 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: (October 12, 2013 at 3:55 am)Bucky Ball Wrote: Wrong again deluded one. Sucks to be you.
Gravity exists, (please go jump off the nearest, tallest building, ASAP, if you need to verify that). Gravity can have a a negative value, (which you would know if you ever took a science class.) Matter and anti-matter exist. They collide and annihilate. That does not imply they did not both exist. The sum of zero of the universe does not break any laws, or invalidate the reality of the positive and negative components.
One can infer the sum of Dark Energy and Dark Matter, by their affects on galaxies. Those are big words for you, so don't strain yourself. You clearly are an ignorant little troll.
The question is, "Was Jason Bourne born or borne ?"
(Oh wait ... both).
Never mind.
Carry on.
meow
No answer to the origin of the universe then.
The same contradiction holds.
It the universe comes from nothing, that violates a number of scientific laws and principles.
If it always existed, all order should have vanished an infinite time ago.
The contradiction exists.
If it cam from something before, where did that come from?
And the same contradiction holds for it.
Since we don't know the origin of our universe, there is no contradiction.
You are creating a contradiction where none exists.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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