(October 12, 2013 at 6:28 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: No answer to the origin of the universe then.

The same contradiction holds.

It the universe comes from nothing, that violates a number of scientific laws and principles.
If it always existed, all order should have vanished an infinite time ago.
The contradiction exists.

If it cam from something before, where did that come from?
And the same contradiction holds for it.

Caused by grace to fail again.

(October 12, 2013 at 6:28 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: It the universe comes from nothing, that violates a number of scientific laws and principles.

Which you just happened to forget to mention, by name. cough cough.
Virtual particles come into and out of existence, billions (if not far more) of times per second. They violate no "scientific laws and principles".
But thanks for admitting your deity is essentially a "god of the gaps", because your personality type REQUIRES an answer to that question today, and "we're working on that" is not acceptable, because essentially you are the two year old, saying to mommy "but why", and when an answer is provided, keeps repeating "but why", "but why" to mommy.
You, psychologically NEED, your answer yesterday. It's really about anal retentive personality disorder, than about anything else.

The fact that your brain sees a contradiction is irrelevant. The universe has been proven to be non-intuitive. What appears to be logical to human brains, only works in a small bandwidth, (Relativity, Uncertainty etc.). You need EVIDENCE. Logic, and what appears to be illogical or logical to you is of no help here.

Ya really wanna know where it came from ?
It came from the 7th generation of Evil Poohbah Robot universe makers, which an omnipotent devil-being created with the power to create universes. Each generation was granted the power to create universes, by the omnipotent Main Evil Poohbah, with the holy law, that they must create universes with one less dimension than the robot that created the previous generation, made. We are the 11th generation of Evil Poohbah's causation chain.

There is as much evidence and logic for that, as there is for your paradigm. It's internally consistent, and the cause is omnipotent.

Wanna help me start Poohbah beligion ?

The question is : "Where anywhere, does something say it's ok the INVENT explanations for things that are, at the moment only partially explained,
declare one more useful than the next, with no evidence, name one of them a god" and finally expect rational people to buy into that crap ?"






meow

The fundamental flaw of christainity which underpins all of its other ghastly flaws is the belief that an unexplanation (usually only one) that stops the search of an explanation can be better than a diligent search for an explanation that has not yet reached its conclusion.

And what was the Christian explanation again?


Oh, right. Magic. Yes.

(October 12, 2013 at 11:04 am)Mutant13 Wrote: And what was the Christian explanation again?


Oh, right. Magic. Yes.

The christain position is "I get to offer a word in lieu of an explanation, you don't even get to offer an explanation in lieu of my word".

(October 12, 2013 at 3:48 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(October 12, 2013 at 2:35 am)snowtracks Wrote: the U. itself is an effect. the principle of causality says cause is alway greater than the effect and always precedes the effect. no human has ever seen this principle violated.

Now all you have to do is explain how someting can precede something else when time does not exist.

shows that the causal agent has access to at least one other time dim that doesn't intersect the cosmic timeline. we already know that multiple spatial dim exist. and according to string theory 6 space dim exist we haven't access to.

We know that dim exists. Have you met sword of christ?

(October 10, 2013 at 4:03 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote:

(October 10, 2013 at 10:11 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Where did the universe come from?

What purpose would it serve to reply with a detailed explaination of what you are asking for when your reaction is to constantly spew out questions whilest ignoring the answeres????

Why is the sky blue!!??

Why can pigs not fly?

Why is canned food in cans?

Why is water blue?

Why is grass green?

Why is it summer in Australia?

And you do the same thing when I answer scriptural questions, stop talking out of both sides of you complaining mouth.

GC

(October 12, 2013 at 3:48 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(October 12, 2013 at 2:35 am)snowtracks Wrote: the U. itself is an effect. the principle of causality says cause is alway greater than the effect and always precedes the effect. no human has ever seen this principle violated.

Now all you have to do is explain how something can precede something else when time does not exist.

Exactly.

The next problem is to explain the "Principle of Causality".
If his deity is the creator of (all of) Reality, (and is not just subsumed within it, and thus not the creator of all things), then it would have had to CAUSE the Principle of Causality, (as well as the ENTIRE STRUCTURE of Reality, including the very "structure" of existence vs non-existence). How can Causality be caused, if Causality is not, a priori, in place in the structure of Reality, in the first place ? It's meaningless, (and infinite regression). A deity which HAD to create the structure of Reality, cannot be subsumed within it, and still of necessity, REQUIRE a portion of it, for it's own "existence", (which it, by definition created).

The word "creation" is an action verb. Actions REQUIRE the dimension of time, a priori. Actions have beginnings, and endings. Creation, at least in theology was an intentional act. Intention and actions require time. We know that in this universe time and space are not separate. So as far as we know, this acting/creating, (and actually even "existing") deity NEEDS spacetime. Quite the corner they got themselves painted into there.

(October 12, 2013 at 12:48 pm)Godschild Wrote: And you do the same thing when I answer scriptural questions, stop talking out of both sides of you complaining mouth.

GC

No I dont.

All you ever do is post useless phrases consisting of nothing but a sentence that has absolutly no substance to it.

You repeat punchlines and talking points due to a very proberbal delusion of your that makes you think that those are arguments.

And while doing so you dismiss evry counter as "godless".

You are a fanatic and a sociopath, for whom there is no other place on a discussion forum other than to be subject of satire and humor.

Because dealing with you in any other way would be frustrating.

(October 12, 2013 at 1:00 pm)The Germans are coming Wrote:

(October 12, 2013 at 12:48 pm)Godschild Wrote: And you do the same thing when I answer scriptural questions, stop talking out of both sides of you complaining mouth.

GC

No I dont.

All you ever do is post useless phrases consisting of nothing but a sentence that has absolutly no substance to it.

You repeat punchlines and talking points due to a very proberbal delusion of your that makes you think that those are arguments.

And while doing so you dismiss evry counter as "godless".

You are a fanatic and a sociopath, for whom there is no other place on a discussion forum other than to be subject of satire and humor.

Because dealing with you in any other way would be frustrating.

If you do not like what I have to say then quit reading my post, then you want be a frustrated dimwit.

GC