(October 28, 2013 at 1:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: The only justification I'm responsible for is to myself and that comes first through faith, then progresses through to belief and then knowledge. So you see I've given up nothing and actually gained knowledge of God's existence.

If you begin by simply assuming God exists with NO justification, then you can't claim to arrive at knowledge that he exists: you just assume he does through faity, by your own admission. You've given up 'nothing', and gained just as much in return.

Quote:I should have made this clearer, not being able to deny God comes at the judgement, obviously, during one's time here one can deny God's existence. God will show those who deny Him here where the made their error, everything and I mean everything will be revealed at the judgement.

So in other words, God will reveal himself to exist on Judgement Day, but not now. Since he will not reveal himself now, billions upon billions will go to Hell because of his deliberate inaction. Voila, he is either incompetent or evil.

Quote:God says everyone will bend his/her knees and bow their before Him, and say, yes you truly are the King, this also occurs at the judgement. Rejecting God now is your only and free decision you can make in your present life or accepting Him into your life. Again sorry for making this confusing before.

GC

So great, the whole thing is a farce. If such is my only 'free' decision, I never had the capacity to do otherwise. Which necessitates that I never actually chose whether or not to accept God exists since the entirety of my life leading up to and deciding that was predetermined. So it is not a 'free' choice in any sense of the word. Try not to contradict yourself, okay?

(October 27, 2013 at 8:45 am)Chas Wrote:

(October 27, 2013 at 8:39 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

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http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/compute...d=20678984

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Automating a stupidity doesn't make it true.

No shit, this argument is nothing new and still stuck with "which god" and the problem with infinite regress, even if we bought this si fi crap.

(October 29, 2013 at 7:37 am)Dragonetti Wrote: None the less. Someone claims to see God on a daily basis. Those people are normally in the padded room and medicated.

You're surrounded by them every time you go in public, can you pick them out.

GC

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(October 29, 2013 at 9:29 am)Zen Badger Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 9:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: Yes, I see Him all the time.

And does god talk to you?
And do you talk to him?

Of coarse, how else do you have a relationship with someone, you know of a different way.

GC

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(October 29, 2013 at 11:18 am)Doubting Thomas Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 9:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: God does not torture, though He could make your punishment worse.

You just contradicted yourself. Let alone the idea of God not torturing anyone but sending people to Hell for an eternity. At any rate, why should I want to worship such a god which threatens me like that? No Christian has ever answered this question for me.

At one time I took you or someone who was sensible and intelligent, guess I was quite wrong.
There is no contradiction in my statement, nowhere in scripture does it say God tortures, as a matter of fact it continually states that one chooses to go to eternal punishment.
Here's your answer, God doesn't threaten, He gave you a choice and you as a spoiled brat want to cry and whine like a child. The reason you do not want to worship God is because you have never known the loving grace of salvation from Him. You want to live for yourself and that comes with a price, one you are apparently willing to pay, shame really Christ has already payed the price if you will accept it.

GC

(October 29, 2013 at 2:05 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(October 29, 2013 at 7:37 am)Dragonetti Wrote: None the less. Someone claims to see God on a daily basis. Those people are normally in the padded room and medicated.

You're surrounded by them every time you go in public, can you pick them out.

GC

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(October 29, 2013 at 9:29 am)Zen Badger Wrote: And does god talk to you?
And do you talk to him?

Of coarse, how else do you have a relationship with someone, you know of a different way.

GC

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(October 29, 2013 at 11:18 am)Doubting Thomas Wrote: You just contradicted yourself. Let alone the idea of God not torturing anyone but sending people to Hell for an eternity. At any rate, why should I want to worship such a god which threatens me like that? No Christian has ever answered this question for me.

At one time I took you or someone who was sensible and intelligent, guess I was quite wrong.
There is no contradiction in my statement, nowhere in scripture does it say God tortures, as a matter of fact it continually states that one chooses to go to eternal punishment.
Here's your answer, God doesn't threaten, He gave you a choice and you as a spoiled brat want to cry and whine like a child. The reason you do not want to worship God is because you have never known the loving grace of salvation from Him. You want to live for yourself and that comes with a price, one you are apparently willing to pay, shame really Christ has already payed the price if you will accept it.

GC

What the ever loving fuck do you mean he doesn't threaten?

Hell isn't even like a parent saying "If you don't clean your room, you cant go out and play"

Hell is "If you don't clean your room I will butt fuck you with a barbed wire condom and I will do so for eternity"

(October 29, 2013 at 12:39 pm)MindForgedManacle Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 1:17 pm)Godschild Wrote: The only justification I'm responsible for is to myself and that comes first through faith, then progresses through to belief and then knowledge. So you see I've given up nothing and actually gained knowledge of God's existence.

If you begin by simply assuming God exists with NO justification, then you can't claim to arrive at knowledge that he exists: you just assume he does through faity, by your own admission. You've given up 'nothing', and gained just as much in return.

Faith and assumption are two very different things. Scientist make assumptions all the time and pursue them to the end, no evidence, no proof they follow what they think is correct. You've given no proof of why faith can not lead to knowledge, you just assume I can't.

GC Wrote:I should have made this clearer, not being able to deny God comes at the judgement, obviously, during one's time here one can deny God's existence. God will show those who deny Him here where the made their error, everything and I mean everything will be revealed at the judgement.

Quote:So in other words, God will reveal himself to exist on Judgement Day, but not now. Since he will not reveal himself now, billions upon billions will go to Hell because of his deliberate inaction. Voila, he is either incompetent or evil.

That's not what I said and you know it, twisting words is nothing more than deception. There are 100's of millions alive today that have come to know God because He has revealed Himself. God will reveal at judgement how those who decided to reject Christ had the opportunity and rejected Him. God's action is very apparent when one wants to see it, putting blinders on will be no defense at the judgment.

GC Wrote:God says everyone will bend his/her knees and bow their before Him, and say, yes you truly are the King, this also occurs at the judgement. Rejecting God now is your only and free decision you can make in your present life or accepting Him into your life. Again sorry for making this confusing before.

GC

Quote:So great, the whole thing is a farce. If such is my only 'free' decision, I never had the capacity to do otherwise. Which necessitates that I never actually chose whether or not to accept God exists since the entirety of my life leading up to and deciding that was predetermined. So it is not a 'free' choice in any sense of the word. Try not to contradict yourself, okay?

No, you have the choice to choose Christ or reject Him, this is the one area God will never interfere in your choice. The rest of your life may not be so, all depends on God's ultimate will. Your life is not predetermined and if you believe that you live a defeated life, now that would truly be tragic. For someone who claims to be a person of reason you have a distinct habit of laying it aside when it comes to God.

GC

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(October 29, 2013 at 3:09 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(October 29, 2013 at 2:05 pm)Godschild Wrote: You're surrounded by them every time you go in public, can you pick them out.

GC

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Of coarse, how else do you have a relationship with someone, you know of a different way.

GC

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At one time I took you or someone who was sensible and intelligent, guess I was quite wrong.
There is no contradiction in my statement, nowhere in scripture does it say God tortures, as a matter of fact it continually states that one chooses to go to eternal punishment.
Here's your answer, God doesn't threaten, He gave you a choice and you as a spoiled brat want to cry and whine like a child. The reason you do not want to worship God is because you have never known the loving grace of salvation from Him. You want to live for yourself and that comes with a price, one you are apparently willing to pay, shame really Christ has already payed the price if you will accept it.

GC

What the ever loving fuck do you mean he doesn't threaten?

Hell isn't even like a parent saying "If you don't clean your room, you cant go out and play"

Hell is "If you don't clean your room I will butt fuck you with a barbed wire condom and I will do so for eternity"

You are a dishonest person, you are making accusations you can not prove, I would suggest you get busy proving what you have stated. You're anger at God and His children it shows in dramatic style, why not try a more rational approach.

GC

(October 29, 2013 at 3:47 pm)Godschild Wrote: No, you have the choice to choose Christ or reject Him, this is the one area God will never interfere in your choice. The rest of your life may not be so, all depends on God's ultimate will.

Rubbish. What I believe is not a matter of choice. I can no more choose my beliefs than I can choose to be an all powerful bagel that floats off the coast of el salvador

(October 29, 2013 at 12:41 am)Godschild Wrote:

(October 28, 2013 at 11:12 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: I have not one, but thousands of books to back my claims. It's called science, and you may as well surrender to it, seeing as you are already only a part of it, and nothing else.

P.S.

The bible is also opinion (the opinions of hundreds of conflicting authors who all seek personal glory in their god's name (just like the church today)).

Hundreds of writers, really. I've never seen a book that disproves the existence of God, what does one look like?

GC

(bold added)

Neither have I, but if mankind survives religion long enough, perhaps we may one day see just such a book. For the record, I never said I read a book that disproves the existence of god. I said there are thousands of science books, which lean more than a little more heavily toward my arguments, supported by said books, as being more realistic and plausible than those of most theists.

(October 29, 2013 at 12:41 am)Godschild Wrote: I've never seen a book that disproves the existence of God, what does one look like?

It says "Holy Bible" on the front.

(October 29, 2013 at 2:56 am)orogenicman Wrote: Since I didn't quote you, and since I made no mistake in who I quoted, your point, whatever it was, is moot. I don't believe anyone here who has kept up with the thread could mistake who I was quoting. It is not my job to keep others in the loop. And for the record, I've posted quotes from others exactly as I did above since I became a member, and you are the first person who has ever complained.

Cool your jets partner, I'm not complaining. What I said was, that IF you ever quote me I would appreciate the respect of also including the link to my quote. It was a simple request, asked respectfully. Thank you.

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(October 29, 2013 at 7:30 am)LastPoet Wrote: My second suggestion is for you to avoid making wrongful accusations towards other members. Orogenicman quoted GC, not you. You know, baseless accusations may cause people to stop taking you seriously.

ac·cu·sa·tion
/ˌakyəˈzāSHən,ˌakyo͞o-/
(noun)
"a charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong."

I made no accusations. I made a firm, respectfully worded, suggestion of my own regarding ever being quoted by another member. If people choose not to properly respect specifically requested behaviors as they may pertain toward me, then I cannot prevent that. I asked for consideration and respect, that is all. If my direct tone seems callous then you may address that, but please, again being polite, I ask you not to make accusations regarding accusations I have not made.

(October 29, 2013 at 4:50 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote:

(October 29, 2013 at 2:56 am)orogenicman Wrote: Since I didn't quote you, and since I made no mistake in who I quoted, your point, whatever it was, is moot. I don't believe anyone here who has kept up with the thread could mistake who I was quoting. It is not my job to keep others in the loop. And for the record, I've posted quotes from others exactly as I did above since I became a member, and you are the first person who has ever complained.

Cool your jets partner, I'm not complaining. What I said was, that IF you ever quote me I would appreciate the respect of also including the link to my quote. It was a simple request, asked respectfully. Thank you.

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(October 29, 2013 at 7:30 am)LastPoet Wrote: My second suggestion is for you to avoid making wrongful accusations towards other members. Orogenicman quoted GC, not you. You know, baseless accusations may cause people to stop taking you seriously.

ac·cu·sa·tion
/ˌakyəˈzāSHən,ˌakyo͞o-/
(noun)
"a charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong."

I made no accusations. I made a firm, respectfully worded, suggestion of my own regarding ever being quoted by another member. If people choose not to properly respect specifically requested behaviors as they may pertain toward me, then I cannot prevent that. I asked for consideration and respect, that is all. If my direct tone seems callous then you may address that, but please, again being polite, I ask you not to make accusations regarding accusations I have not made.

But since it wasn't you I was quoting, why single me out? Why didn't you simply request it of everyone?