(November 8, 2013 at 11:13 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(November 8, 2013 at 11:00 am)ronedee Wrote: uh...... billions....and BILLIONS of imaginations!

Shouldn't that be with hands over ears? Or eyes?

You're right. I should be covering all orifices when you bombard me with such pathological stupidity.

(November 8, 2013 at 10:22 am)Faith No More Wrote: Once again, god acts less like a deity and more like a powerful human.

First, as we were originally made in his image, it's not unexpected that his traits will have some overlap with ours.

Second...who are you to say that there's a specific way that a deity would necessarily behave?

Quote:Two problems with this. God is deriving his pleasure directly from the suffering, not simply placing his pleasure above the suffering of others,

Incorrect. God is pleased with faithfulness. This is clear in the account. Read the last few chapters. God is not pleased. BUt, Job did suffer, so apparently god does not derive pleasure directly from suffering.

Quote:Also, the reason we place our own pleasure above the suffering of others is due to the fact that we are not omnipotent and have finite resources.

No, it's due to the fact that we care more about ourselves than we do others. If we cared more about others, we would forego unnecessary pleasures and devote those resources to helping others. We don't.

Quote:If I had the powers of a god, you can bet your ass that I wouldn't do that, but you'll just attempt to rationalize why an omnipotent god can be so lazy and callous.

You're the on rationalizing your own behavior, as expected. Regardless, being almighty has nothing to do with receiving freely given praise.

(November 8, 2013 at 12:06 pm)John V Wrote: First, as we were originally made in his image, it's not unexpected that his traits will have some overlap with ours.

Second...who are you to say that there's a specific way that a deity would necessarily behave?

I'm judging how a deity would behave based upon the abilities attributed to it. I find it hard to swallow that an omnipotent, omniscient deity would be concerned with such petty things as praise, which come about from the finite capacity for knowledge and emotional shortcomings.

(November 8, 2013 at 12:06 pm)John V Wrote: Incorrect. God is pleased with faithfulness. This is clear in the account. Read the last few chapters. God is not pleased. BUt, Job did suffer, so apparently god does not derive pleasure directly from suffering.

You said that god is pleased with obedience, and that obedience through suffering is greater than obedience with reward. Thus god derives pleasure from our suffering.

(November 8, 2013 at 12:06 pm)John V Wrote: No, it's due to the fact that we care more about ourselves than we do others. If we cared more about others, we would forego unnecessary pleasures and devote those resources to helping others. We don't.

That is true to an extent, but if we were omnipotent, as god is, our need to spend our resources on ourselves because we care too much about our own well-being wouldn't be a factor.

(November 8, 2013 at 12:06 pm)John V Wrote: You're the on rationalizing your own behavior, as expected. Regardless, being almighty has nothing to do with receiving freely given praise.

No one's talking about receiving freely given praise. We're talking about basic rights and necessities given for a maintainable existence, something which wouldn't be a burden or inconvenience to your god, yet you attempt to justify such inaction through reasons that would be of no concern to an omnipotent deity.

(November 8, 2013 at 11:21 am)Faith No More Wrote: You're right. I should be covering all orifices when you bombard me with such pathological stupidity.

LOL! There is a joke here...aw hell... I can't! I'm a Christian!

See... I can show restrant! Have a nice Friday!

(November 8, 2013 at 11:00 am)ronedee Wrote:

(November 8, 2013 at 10:49 am)Faith No More Wrote: How do I ask a figment of your imagination anything?

uh...... billions....and BILLIONS of imaginations!

You said it, not us.

(November 8, 2013 at 12:22 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm judging how a deity would behave based upon the abilities attributed to it. I find it hard to swallow that an omnipotent, omniscient deity would be concerned with such petty things as praise, which come about from the finite capacity for knowledge and emotional shortcomings.

That you find something hard to swallow is merely an argument from personal incredulity.

Quote:You said that god is pleased with obedience, and that obedience through suffering is greater than obedience with reward. Thus god derives pleasure from our suffering.

No, God derives pleasure from obedience.

Quote:That is true to an extent, but if we were omnipotent, as god is, our need to spend our resources on ourselves because we care too much about our own well-being wouldn't be a factor.

Irrelevant, as I'm only talking about luxuries.

Quote:No one's talking about receiving freely given praise.

Yes, that's exactly what God and Satan are talking about in Job.

Quote:We're talking about basic rights and necessities given for a maintainable existence,

Again, no, we're talking about luxuries. Rather than admit your hypocrisy, you try to build a straw man.

Quote:something which wouldn't be a burden or inconvenience to your god, yet you attempt to justify such inaction through reasons that would be of no concern to an omnipotent deity.

And we circle back to your argument from personal incredulity for good measure.

(November 8, 2013 at 6:09 pm)John V Wrote:

(November 8, 2013 at 12:22 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'm judging how a deity would behave based upon the abilities attributed to it. I find it hard to swallow that an omnipotent, omniscient deity would be concerned with such petty things as praise, which come about from the finite capacity for knowledge and emotional shortcomings.

That you find something hard to swallow is merely an argument from personal incredulity.

Quote:You said that god is pleased with obedience, and that obedience through suffering is greater than obedience with reward. Thus god derives pleasure from our suffering.

No, God derives pleasure from obedience.

Yep. And Job. Lets not forget Job.
Job derived pleasure too!
It's a win/win.
...well not for satan. But he is just a frustrated anti-theist malcontent and a loser.

If Job had his time over again he would do the same - no regrets.

(November 8, 2013 at 6:57 pm)Lion IRC Wrote:

(November 8, 2013 at 6:09 pm)John V Wrote: No, God derives pleasure from obedience.

Yep. And Job. Lets not forget Job.
Job derived pleasure too!
It's a win/win.

A willing lickspittle is a happy lickspittle, eh?

(November 8, 2013 at 6:57 pm)Lion IRC Wrote:

(November 8, 2013 at 6:09 pm)John V Wrote: That you find something hard to swallow is merely an argument from personal incredulity.
No, God derives pleasure from obedience.

Yep. And Job. Lets not forget Job.
Job derived pleasure too!
It's a win/win.
...well not for satan. But he is just a frustrated anti-theist malcontent and a loser.

If Job had his time over again he would do the same - no regrets.

I'm guessing he wasn't much of a family man then