How much you want to bet those bibles were written in English?

(November 12, 2013 at 11:11 am)Drich Wrote: IF the North Koreans are under threat of death for worship any other 'god' besides members of the Kim family, and we can all agree there is a need for 'change' Then how is change going to be possiable if not under the threat of death? These poor people live under a bastardized version of a theocracy, and have lived that way in one form or another since initial invasion of Japan in 1910.

This implies that you think that a single drop of bibles, made completely at random (they were drifted over on a balloon with a timer mechanism, remember) constitutes enough of a political upheaval that it's worth the risk of getting some citizens killed. Do you honestly think that revolutions are so easily accomplished?

Quote:Not to force you to think too much, but I will ask you anyways, How do you suppose that a people who have lived under emperial theocratic rule for the 100 years or so get to the point where they mandate change without putting their lives at risk.. Now before you give some hippy answer understand that if you object to the goverment control/deity of the great leader then your put into a forced labor camp just like the jews were in Nazi controled germany.

Real quick: name for me a single other revolution against an autocratic regime that was won solely through small amounts of literature dispersed at random by single, equally ideologically motivated groups on the outside.

Quote:So the problem remains if ALL avenues of free thought are forbiden, and these people only know life under a theocracy, ask yourself what is the best way to effect change in that country if China is backing the current leadership and wont allow anyone to say boo about them? Change if it happens will only happen from within. If it doesn't these poor brainwashed people will fight to defend their 'god' down to the last man woman and child, just like the japs were ready to do in WWII, and Like their grandparents did in the first Korean conflict.

Unsurprisingly, you've missed the point again: I agree with you that change needs to happen for the better there. Where we differ is that I don't need to leap to the defense of every stupid fucking thing that's done with a bible, and so I can see that not only is this action likely to be ineffective or dangerous, but that the motivation behind it was clear self aggrandizing, and not based on a sincere desire to help, because people tend to put more thought into these things it they actually want to help.

Quote:Unless they can identify their leader as a false God they will have no reason to even want change let alone embrace it when it happens. In the end no matter what happens unless things stay the same many many north Koreans will die. The only question is will they die looking to better themselves or will they die trying to defend their current beliefs?

Real quick, the second: you understand that the populace of North Korea has been brainwashed through endless propaganda to believe America is their sworn enemy, and hates them. What do you think they are likely to be thinking when an entirely contextless drop of hated American materials fall from the sky, with no additional material besides testimonies purporting to be from defectors? Do you honestly, actually think such a thing is going to be believed out of hand, by a group of people assailed from birth with news of how evil and terrible these things are?

Maybe you need to do more and less

(November 12, 2013 at 3:52 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: How much you want to bet those bibles were written in English?

Wouldn't bet on it. Evenglical mega congregations catering to South Koreans are amongst the most strident and brainless around, having appearently exploited cultural vulnerabilities prepared by confucian concept of piety and devotion to authority.

Good point. They'd be written in chinese

Hey, what if they're great leader finds a way to spin this and make people think he is second coming of christ?

(November 12, 2013 at 3:52 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: How much you want to bet those bibles were written in English?

"Well, if English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for the North Koreans!"

Paraphrased from something a Christian once actually said.

(November 12, 2013 at 7:30 pm)Esquilax Wrote: This implies that you think that a single drop of bibles, made completely at random (they were drifted over on a balloon with a timer mechanism, remember) constitutes enough of a political upheaval that it's worth the risk of getting some citizens killed. Do you honestly think that revolutions are so easily accomplished?

I think the story is propaganda to 'explain' if/where the bibles came from that maybe showing up in N/K.

This is to divert attention from an active/on going supply line or continous effort.

Quote:Real quick: name for me a single other revolution against an autocratic regime that was won solely through small amounts of literature dispersed at random by single, equally ideologically motivated groups on the outside.

All major communists take overs begin this way. That is why in the 50 and 60's being labled a communist or a commie propergandist was such a career ending stigma to anyone in the US especially those in the media or movies of that era.

Drich Wrote:So the problem remains if ALL avenues of free thought are forbiden, and these people only know life under a theocracy, ask yourself what is the best way to effect change in that country if China is backing the current leadership and wont allow anyone to say boo about them? Change if it happens will only happen from within. If it doesn't these poor brainwashed people will fight to defend their 'god' down to the last man woman and child, just like the japs were ready to do in WWII, and Like their grandparents did in the first Korean conflict.

Quote:Unsurprisingly, you've missed the point again: I agree with you that change needs to happen for the better there. Where we differ is that I don't need to leap to the defense of every stupid fucking thing that's done with a bible, and so I can see that not only is this action likely to be ineffective or dangerous, but that the motivation behind it was clear self aggrandizing, and not based on a sincere desire to help, because people tend to put more thought into these things it they actually want to help.

I did not miss the point, i acknoweledge it and made the assertion that these people for the last 100 years have only known theocratic rule. That being the case the only way to topple a 'god' in the hearts and minds of a brain washed people, is to show that their 'god/leader' to be a false God. They have to come to this on their own.

If you try and introduce the ideas of self worship that you all have adopted for yourselves it will be quickly identified as western propaganda, and dismissed without another thought. If you push this idea of self worship then they will simply dig in deeper.

The only way to topple the hold the Kim's have on N/K is to introduce them to the freedom the God of the bible offers, as worship of a god is all they know. They will not simply drop 100 years of tradition for the sake of being like you. That idea scares them as much as the idea of you being forced to do and think as they do.

Quote:Real quick, the second: you understand that the populace of North Korea has been brainwashed through endless propaganda to believe America is their sworn enemy, and hates them. What do you think they are likely to be thinking when an entirely contextless drop of hated American materials fall from the sky, with no additional material besides testimonies purporting to be from defectors? Do you honestly, actually think such a thing is going to be believed out of hand, by a group of people assailed from birth with news of how evil and terrible these things are?

I don't know if your aware or not, but South Korea's primary Religion is Christianity. The Christian efforts to win the Hearts and minds of the N/Ks undoubtedly have to be coordinated with the koreans who live in the south. even if americans sponsor this effort it does not make sense to send them english bibles.

Quote:Maybe you need to do more and less

I absolutly love it when you guys say that I need to 'think more.' It usally means that with in one or two more posts you will jump the shark (deviate from the orginal topic) and start in with the personal insults.

Oh so now GC thinks we worship ourselves instead of his god, well he really has our number doesn't he. You've worked it out, congratulations on discovering our secret, you can go away now, knowing that you know what true atheists are.

(November 13, 2013 at 11:53 am)Drich Wrote: I don't know if your aware or not, but South Korea's primary Religion is Christianity. The Christian efforts to win the Hearts and minds of the N/Ks undoubtedly have to be coordinated with the koreans who live in the south. even if americans sponsor this effort it does not make sense to send them english bibles.

Just because South Korea has had one farce of a christian Hyundai Scion president a few years back who had been tactless about his christianity even by the ususal standards of christian tactlessness, Drich thinks South Korea is primarily christian.

No, buffoon, half of your genetic heritage actually came from a population 70% of which is better than you, that is to say non-christian. A small presence of strident and loud moutheds christian idiots has not changed the fact that 70% of South Korean population identify themselves as Buddist.

(November 12, 2013 at 1:48 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Unless a significant portion of the military is turned, a key portion of most revolutions. The starvation could be alleviated substantially by lifting economic sanctions.

Unfortunately the military is among the first fed, so it's unlikely they'll turn against the government. Kim Jong Il was no idiot, he knew that in order to keep a loyal military he had to keep their bread buttered.