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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 1:23 pm
(November 12, 2013 at 1:14 pm)ToriJ Wrote: (November 12, 2013 at 12:47 pm)Drich Wrote: Maybe they are doing it in a way they don't want the North Korean goverment to know about, so they (in this story) tell them to watch the skies but the bibles are really being shipped in another way.
Then I hope they don't start shooting at planes that fly over their homeland under the pretense that they may be smuggling stuff into the country.
Maybe they use a 'Punkin Chunkin' trebuchet? Stealthy!
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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 1:25 pm
(November 12, 2013 at 12:48 pm)Drich Wrote: (November 12, 2013 at 11:58 am)max-greece Wrote: "It also says: "You shall have no other God before me... " Their 'great leader' fancies himself a god. At the very least They will have a decision to make for themselves."
Useless too I am afraid.
"You shall have no other God before me," is not the same as "I am the only God - all the others are fakes."
Their Great Leader will simply point that out and tell them that he is another God. Looking at the other quotes I provided the "great leader" will probably allow Christians to worship theirs on the basis of their total subservience to his rule - and then only if the movement became a threat.
Of course Christians would hail this as a great victory - the rest of us, however......still look upon the despot with despair.
If this were the case why are bible having to be smuggled into the country and not mandated reading?
I guess the Korean leadership haven't read it? Its also possible they simply don't think they need it. They seem to be keeping control remarkably well without the tool of Christianity.
Now if they were familiar with European History I am sure they would have figured out how useful Christianity can be in supporting a dictatorship.
Kuusi palaa, ja on viimeinen kerta kun annan vaimoni laittaa jouluvalot!
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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 1:35 pm
(This post was last modified: November 12, 2013 at 1:41 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(November 12, 2013 at 1:25 pm)max-greece Wrote: Now if they were familiar with European History I am sure they would have figured out how useful Christianity can be in supporting a dictatorship.
I think the Kims read it, and decided to emulate the alledged prophet, god, son of god, instead of the two bit disciples and their penny a dozen acolytes down the ages, and thus become christains in a sense so much truer than self-styled christains like Drich, that the likes of Drich found it understandably and accutely discomforting.
Actually, I am being flip.
Christians thinks their idiocy is unique. But many a unscruplous men down the ages have come up with similar self-styled divinities on their onw. Self-styled god and son of god like Jesus is really quite common in history for the Kim's to study, and Kims didn't have to know anything about the particular Jesus of Bible to emulate the godhead Jesus to perfection. This kim's grand father could have looked across the border and saw Mao to the same thing. And it is not even hard to believe the Kims could have come up with it all on their own even if their studies didn't extend to any of their like minded predecessors.
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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 1:38 pm
(November 12, 2013 at 1:35 pm)Chuck Wrote: (November 12, 2013 at 1:25 pm)max-greece Wrote: Now if they were familiar with European History I am sure they would have figured out how useful Christianity can be in supporting a dictatorship.
I think the Kims read it, and decided to emulate the alledged prophet, god, son of god, instead of the two bit disciples and their penny a dozen acolytes down the ages, and thus become christains in a sense so much truer than self-styled christains like Drich, that the likes of Drich found it understandably and accutely discomforting.
You're on fire today Chuck - great insight!
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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 1:47 pm
(November 12, 2013 at 2:03 am)Drich Wrote: (November 12, 2013 at 12:29 am)Esquilax Wrote: So a Christian group just air dropped thousands of bibles into North Korea.
Leaving aside, as the article notes, the fact that the people of North Korea would probably be more in need of food than bullshit, let's also consider what's actually happened, here:
A group of christians, under the guise of helping people, just dropped a load of what's considered subversive material into a tightly controlled, secretive and violent country, with the aim of getting it read by the populace. What, exactly, does this group think is going to happen to those who are caught in possession of a bible? Or worse, who has actually converted?
Even if this plan works as intended, it's only going to end up harmful!
.....So your 'thoughts' are to force North Koreans obedience in their state mandated worship of their 'great leader' as God? To not allow them the material needed to question the authority nor the deity of Kim li sung , or his progeny?
Wow... I can tell you and your peers really thought this one out.
That's funny that you think people need a book telling them what to think in order to critically evaluate claims of a Deity. You so crazy...YOU SOOO crazy....
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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 1:48 pm
(November 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: In that type of society, it'd be virtually impossible for those in power to not realize that their citizens are being given smuggled ipads or what have you. In the end they'll be the ones to suffer for it.
If it's to be done, no half measures: saturate the country with miniature libraries. Plant them in the belongings of important generals and bureacrats who help perpetuate the system. N. Korea is smaller than Missisippi (maybe we can test it on Mississippi, they could use more information too). It's doable.
(November 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: There's no easy solution to the north korea problem, but I don't think this would be one of the avenues. They barely have enough food to eat, I watched this documentary and the streets are so empty, these people are incapable of mounting a revolution even if they want one.
Unless a significant portion of the military is turned, a key portion of most revolutions. The starvation could be alleviated substantially by lifting economic sanctions. Apparently we are incapable of learning how counterproductive that tactic is. The people suffer, but the psychopathic dictator's position is strengthened: now he can blame all of the country's problems on the Western imperialists.
(November 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: If we're talking about giving them a better quality of life, I have to say food trumps books any day when they're starving so badly.
We're talking about a revolution. The Il regime depends on control of information. Especially in this day and age, we can make that control impossible.
And one of the things books are good for is teaching how to improve food production.
The miniature solar-powered library thing was just off the top of my head, but breaking the N. Korean government's stranglehold on information is vital if things are to change.
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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 1:49 pm
Like he said, his brain became shot through with AIDS like lesions, so he prayed hard and his god cured all but the one that kept him from critical thinking.
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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 1:57 pm
I'm so flabbergasted at Drich's idiocy that I have no sarcastic retort.
Jesus Christ, that must be a first.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 1:59 pm
(November 12, 2013 at 1:35 pm)Chuck Wrote: I think the Kims read it, and decided to emulate the alledged prophet, god, son of god, instead of the two bit disciples and their penny a dozen acolytes down the ages, and thus become christains in a sense so much truer than self-styled christains like Drich, that the likes of Drich found it understandably and accutely discomforting.
Actually, I am being flip.
Christians thinks their idiocy is unique. But many a unscruplous men down the ages have come up with similar self-styled divinities on their onw. Self-styled god and son of god like Jesus is really quite common in history for the Kim's to study, and Kims didn't have to know anything about the particular Jesus of Bible to emulate the godhead Jesus to perfection. This kim's grand father could have looked across the border and saw Mao to the same thing. And it is not even hard to believe the Kims could have come up with it all on their own even if their studies didn't extend to any of their like minded predecessors.
Not as flip as you might think. Kim Il Sung was raised Presbyterian and his grandfather was a Presbyterian minister. Billy Graham visited N. Korea as a guest of Kim Il Sung on multiple occasions. His son Franklin said 'My father went to North Korea and he met with the president of North Korea, presented the Bible and even witnessed and preached to Kim Il Sung. And Kim Il Sung liked my father--liked him."
“He invited him in 1994 and [my father] went back to North Korea and this time he took a larger delegation and was able to speak at their university and preach at the only two churches opened [in the country],” continued Graham. “In 1997 my mother was invited to go and in 2000 I had the privilege to go and preach in the churches and meet with many of the government leaders.”
The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, along with Samaritan's Purse, is involved in setting up medical aid in North Korea. Good work, to be sure.
But the idea that the Kims got some of their inspiration from the Bible is not so far-fetched, especially if the junior Kim angles for a trinity.
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RE: I see no way this could ever backfire!
November 12, 2013 at 2:14 pm
(November 12, 2013 at 1:48 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: (November 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: In that type of society, it'd be virtually impossible for those in power to not realize that their citizens are being given smuggled ipads or what have you. In the end they'll be the ones to suffer for it.
If it's to be done, no half measures: saturate the country with miniature libraries. Plant them in the belongings of important generals and bureacrats who help perpetuate the system. N. Korea is smaller than Missisippi (maybe we can test it on Mississippi, they could use more information too). It's doable.
(November 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: There's no easy solution to the north korea problem, but I don't think this would be one of the avenues. They barely have enough food to eat, I watched this documentary and the streets are so empty, these people are incapable of mounting a revolution even if they want one.
Unless a significant portion of the military is turned, a key portion of most revolutions. The starvation could be alleviated substantially by lifting economic sanctions. Apparently we are incapable of learning how counterproductive that tactic is. The people suffer, but the psychopathic dictator's position is strengthened: now he can blame all of the country's problems on the Western imperialists.
(November 12, 2013 at 12:54 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: If we're talking about giving them a better quality of life, I have to say food trumps books any day when they're starving so badly.
We're talking about a revolution. The Il regime depends on control of information. Especially in this day and age, we can make that control impossible.
And one of the things books are good for is teaching how to improve food production.
The miniature solar-powered library thing was just off the top of my head, but breaking the N. Korean government's stranglehold on information is vital if things are to change.
Is it just the sanctions? They don't have electricity for a lot of things either, I highly doubt they'll be able to do proper farming that can feed the entire nation without that. Without that and fertilizers, manpower, land, etc. etc.
I agree that information is vital but resources is very important as well. They're pretty depleted from the looks of it, well, the citizens are. I'm sure they still have a strong military, but I think it'll collapse on itself soon. They aren't sustaining their own civilization. Either case, I don't think a revolution would work, unless the military turns, but I'm pretty pessimistic about that, these people have been brainwashed, they'd be very suspicious of things they hear from the outside.
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