You know guys... Israel is no saint of a nation...
It's not on paper, but in practice, at least where the relations with close (muslim) neighbors is concerned, it's a theocracy... jews hate the muslims.... muslims hate the jews... not that much of a difference, is there?

Why can't they just not eat pig together?
They're human, following man-made holy books of war... ultimately, they're stupid... but that's just my impression from way far away.


Israel, it seems, has nuclear weapons... Maybe Iran will call that bluff if they do develop such weapons?... but this new deal was supposed to keep Iran from developing such weapons, wasn't it?
In the long run, let's look at how history has handled nuclear weapons...
cold war: both russians and americans had them.... never used them.
Kashmir: both India and Pakistan had them.... never used any.

Could Israel-Iran be the stupid triggers of world war 3?
Or can these two nations get along slightly better than the other 2 pairs I mentioned?

(November 25, 2013 at 10:21 am)pocaracas Wrote: You know guys... Israel is no saint of a nation...
It's not on paper, but in practice, at least where the relations with close (muslim) neighbors is concerned, it's a theocracy... jews hate the muslims.... muslims hate the jews... not that much of a difference, is there?

Actually there is a big difference because Israel is a secular, pluralistic, democratic nation while the Arab states are despotic (mostly) theocracies that still teach the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as fact to school-children.

yeah.... right....

(November 25, 2013 at 5:21 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote:

(November 25, 2013 at 10:21 am)pocaracas Wrote: You know guys... Israel is no saint of a nation...
It's not on paper, but in practice, at least where the relations with close (muslim) neighbors is concerned, it's a theocracy... jews hate the muslims.... muslims hate the jews... not that much of a difference, is there?

Actually there is a big difference because Israel is a secular, pluralistic, democratic nation while the Arab states are despotic (mostly) theocracies that still teach the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as fact to school-children.

A neligible difference next to the impact of occupying land that is not yours by any generally applicable standard and attempting to hold their occupants in abject poverty and decidedly unwilling submission.

That is antisemitic propaganda! Stop listening to Nazis.

(November 25, 2013 at 5:55 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(November 25, 2013 at 5:21 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote: Actually there is a big difference because Israel is a secular, pluralistic, democratic nation while the Arab states are despotic (mostly) theocracies that still teach the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as fact to school-children.

A neligible difference next to the impact of occupying land that is not yours by any generally applicable standard and attempting to hold their occupants in abject poverty and decidedly unwilling submission.

(November 25, 2013 at 6:00 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote: That is antisemitic propaganda! Stop listening to Nazis.

Non sequitor.

Grow some balls.

Not every criticism of Israel is antisemitic, shit head.

I, for one, would rather be fiscally responsible and stop giving them so much aid.

They already have a powerful economy. Why send money to the prosperous?

Iran. Well, Iran isn't on my list of favorite countries, since we Turks and Iranians were traditionally enemies ever since the Sassanid Empire, though I must say that I really cannot object to its nuclear program while the Jew state practicaly overflows with the nukes hidden in its bowels.
In order to bring about regulations, Israel too must give up its nukes.
And if anyone is really mad about Iran doing stuff, well, the word is the word of the swords until a winner emerges. But until then, a big mushroom cloud might arise over Tel Aviv. Oy vey.

(November 25, 2013 at 5:21 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote:

(November 25, 2013 at 10:21 am)pocaracas Wrote: You know guys... Israel is no saint of a nation...
It's not on paper, but in practice, at least where the relations with close (muslim) neighbors is concerned, it's a theocracy... jews hate the muslims.... muslims hate the jews... not that much of a difference, is there?

Actually there is a big difference because Israel is a secular, pluralistic, democratic nation while the Arab states are despotic (mostly) theocracies that still teach the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as fact to school-children.

Secular, yeah. Israel is a nation that is build on a ethno-religious identity.
I personally have nothing against Israel, its a state that is built on blood, and anything that is built on blood, is fine in my book. Though I'm pretty sure that they can't hold on forever. Sooner or later, the Arabs will say fuck you to the divisions created by the West to keep Israel alive, and drive the Jews into the sea one by one until there is none left.

(November 25, 2013 at 7:39 am)A Theist Wrote: The only good thing to come out of this raw deal is that it seems to have allied Saudi Arabia and Israel in a possible collaborative strike against Iran's nuclear facilities...other Mid-East Gulf allies also expressed their outrage against the deal as well...It's not just Israel who has concerns over this...

Quote:Report: Mossad working with Saudis on contingency plans for potential attack on Iran...

'Sunday Times' quotes diplomatic source as saying Saudis are furious over Iran deal and are willing to give Israel "all the help it needs."

http://www.jpost.com/Iranian-Threat/News...ran-331961

Yes, Saudis and a lot of Sunni extremists out there hate Iran. I sometimes watch their shows on youtube dealing with Sunni and Shia theology, its very enlightening, as it generally focuses on portraying the Shia in Iran as heretics and etc. Its nothing new really.
And now, a new Sunni-Shia battle runs rampart in Syria, Sunni extremists support the rebels while Shia extremists support Assad.
Though I'd say that if Saudis work with the Israelis, Iranians are probably in league with Russia and China.

(November 26, 2013 at 4:33 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Iran. Well, Iran isn't on my list of favorite countries, since we Turks and Iranians were traditionally enemies ever since the Sassanid Empire, though I must say that I really cannot object to its nuclear program while the Jew state practicaly overflows with the nukes hidden in its bowels.
In order to bring about regulations, Israel too must give up its nukes.
And if anyone is really mad about Iran doing stuff, well, the word is the word of the swords until a winner emerges. But until then, a big mushroom cloud might arise over Tel Aviv. Oy vey.

(November 25, 2013 at 5:21 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote: Actually there is a big difference because Israel is a secular, pluralistic, democratic nation while the Arab states are despotic (mostly) theocracies that still teach the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as fact to school-children.

Secular, yeah. Israel is a nation that is build on a ethno-religious identity.
I personally have nothing against Israel, its a state that is built on blood, and anything that is built on blood, is fine in my book. Though I'm pretty sure that they can't hold on forever. Sooner or later, the Arabs will say fuck you to the divisions created by the West to keep Israel alive, and drive the Jews into the sea one by one until there is none left.

(November 25, 2013 at 7:39 am)A Theist Wrote: The only good thing to come out of this raw deal is that it seems to have allied Saudi Arabia and Israel in a possible collaborative strike against Iran's nuclear facilities...other Mid-East Gulf allies also expressed their outrage against the deal as well...It's not just Israel who has concerns over this...


http://www.jpost.com/Iranian-Threat/News...ran-331961

Yes, Saudis and a lot of Sunni extremists out there hate Iran. I sometimes watch their shows on youtube dealing with Sunni and Shia theology, its very enlightening, as it generally focuses on portraying the Shia in Iran as heretics and etc. Its nothing new really.
And now, a new Sunni-Shia battle runs rampart in Syria, Sunni extremists support the rebels while Shia extremists support Assad.
Though I'd say that if Saudis work with the Israelis, Iranians are probably in league with Russia and China.

What are your thoughts on the Turkish government allowing arms and fighters to be funneled to Syria through turkey? For a while this was happening until reports of Sunni rebels in turkey being caught on the border with chemical weapons. It seems that Turkey at first was helping the west then when it realizes that allowing Sunni extremists in their country could pose problems later on in their country they seemed to have stopped.

(November 26, 2013 at 5:04 am)I and I Wrote:

(November 26, 2013 at 4:33 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Iran. Well, Iran isn't on my list of favorite countries, since we Turks and Iranians were traditionally enemies ever since the Sassanid Empire, though I must say that I really cannot object to its nuclear program while the Jew state practicaly overflows with the nukes hidden in its bowels.
In order to bring about regulations, Israel too must give up its nukes.
And if anyone is really mad about Iran doing stuff, well, the word is the word of the swords until a winner emerges. But until then, a big mushroom cloud might arise over Tel Aviv. Oy vey.


Secular, yeah. Israel is a nation that is build on a ethno-religious identity.
I personally have nothing against Israel, its a state that is built on blood, and anything that is built on blood, is fine in my book. Though I'm pretty sure that they can't hold on forever. Sooner or later, the Arabs will say fuck you to the divisions created by the West to keep Israel alive, and drive the Jews into the sea one by one until there is none left.


Yes, Saudis and a lot of Sunni extremists out there hate Iran. I sometimes watch their shows on youtube dealing with Sunni and Shia theology, its very enlightening, as it generally focuses on portraying the Shia in Iran as heretics and etc. Its nothing new really.
And now, a new Sunni-Shia battle runs rampart in Syria, Sunni extremists support the rebels while Shia extremists support Assad.
Though I'd say that if Saudis work with the Israelis, Iranians are probably in league with Russia and China.

What are your thoughts on the Turkish government allowing arms and fighters to be funneled to Syria through turkey? For a while this was happening until reports of Sunni rebels in turkey being caught on the border with chemical weapons. It seems that Turkey at first was helping the west then when it realizes that allowing Sunni extremists in their country could pose problems later on in their country they seemed to have stopped.

Well it still is helping the west, is it not? I didn't vote for the guy who's doing this, the American bootlick, our prime minister.
And now we've got a lot of Arab refugees, while Turkmen, our blood kin are being murdered in both Syria and Iraq.
Mujahideen are flowing to Syria from all corners of the Sunni muslim world, and America knows it all, and has probably approved of them using Turkey as a means of supplying the rebels with weapons and manpower.

P.S. I come from a Sunni(Hanafi) background.

(November 26, 2013 at 5:11 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:

(November 26, 2013 at 5:04 am)I and I Wrote: What are your thoughts on the Turkish government allowing arms and fighters to be funneled to Syria through turkey? For a while this was happening until reports of Sunni rebels in turkey being caught on the border with chemical weapons. It seems that Turkey at first was helping the west then when it realizes that allowing Sunni extremists in their country could pose problems later on in their country they seemed to have stopped.

Well it still is helping the west, is it not? I didn't vote for the guy who's doing this, the American bootlick, our prime minister.
And now we've got a lot of Arab refugees, while Turkmen, our blood kin are being murdered in both Syria and Iraq.
Mujahideen are flowing to Syria from all corners of the Sunni muslim world, and America knows it all, and has probably approved of them using Turkey as a means of supplying the rebels with weapons and manpower.

P.S. I come from a Sunni(Hanafi) background.

Whatever the extent of turkey's help in funneling fighters to Syria, Assad seems to be dealing with them pretty successfully at this point. Turks like Syrians don't like crazy foreigners with guns flooding their cities. What are your thoughts on these Sunni fighters? They seem more like hired thugs rather than radical Sunni Muslims. There are reports that they deal in drug trafficking and prostitution as well.