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Bad Writer · December 6, 2013 at 2:29 pm

Yeah, I'm sure that's how the Muslims view Allah.

Tonus · December 6, 2013 at 2:30 pm

(December 5, 2013 at 6:56 am)Lion IRC Wrote: Me and my parents and their parents and theirs, have something to be grateful for BUT in addition, unlike you, I have Someone to be grateful to.

This seems to imply that you aren't grateful to any person for the things they've done for you, preferring instead to grant all credit to god.

It's not that the atheist has no one to be grateful to. We have many people to be grateful to, and grateful for. And as an added bonus, they happen to exist.

**Neo-Scholastic** · December 6, 2013 at 2:56 pm

...to whom we are grateful. (Grammar)

Godscreated · (This post was last modified: December 6, 2013 at 5:20 pm by Godscreated.)

(December 6, 2013 at 1:37 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: to be honest with you I know nothing of Yahweh or Allah's origins. I was under the impression (when i was a believer) that the Muslims were disinherited by Abraham when he banished his son Ishmael and the maid servant Hagar to the desert (even though Ishmael was by all rights first offspring and confirmed into the clan via circumsicion )and that's why they made up a document claiming their right to inheritence of something (forgive my ignorance, I just didnt care). Mohammad became their Jesus in effect, a messenger of god. and they don't believe Jesus is the son of god but a prophet.

As for Yahweh I found this written by a pastor.
Is it in line with what you believe to be true?

Quote:

http://jesus-messiah.com/studies/yahweh-full-copy.html

The Protoindo European god Yayash, Yaë or Yave, a protective god whose symbol was a tree, signifying possibly '"walking", "going", "a pilgrim", has been dated back to the Indus River valley, circa 2900 B.C.E. He has been identified with the Turko Syrian Yahveh, a "sacred animal or organization".

"Yahweh appears to have been originally a sky god - a god of thunder and lightning. He was associated with mountains and was called by the enemies of Israel 'a god of the hills'. His manifestation was often as fire, as at Mount Sinai and in the burning bush." "A shorter form, 'Yah', was also used (Exodus 15:2) and some scholars believe that this is the older form, originating in an exclamation to God -'Yah!' - which came to be accepted as the divine name. Others claim that it is from the root 'hayah', 'to be' or 'to become', and that it meant 'I am that I am' or I will be that I will be'. According to one tradition of the call of Moses, the divine name Yahweh was revealed to him in Egypt: - Great Events of Bible Times

"Originally, these four consonants [in YHWH] represented the four members of the Heavenly Family: Y represented El the Father; H was Asherah the Mother; W corresponded to He the Son; and H was the Daughter Anath. In accordance with the royal traditions of the time and region, God's mysterious bride, the Matronit, was also reckoned to be his sister. In the Jewish cult of the Cabbala God's dual male-female image was perpetuated. Meanwhile other sects perceived the Shekinah or Matronit as the female presence of God on Earth. The divine marital chamber was the sanctuary of the Jerusalem Temple, but from the moment the Temple was destroyed, the Matronit was destined to roam the Earth while the male aspect of Jehovah was left to rule the heavens alone." - Laurence Gardner, Bloodline of the Holy Grail, p. 18

My God does not resemble that description at all, most of that stuff was taken from religions that worshiped many gods made of wood or stone.

GC

(December 6, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Zazzy Wrote:
(December 6, 2013 at 12:59 pm)Godschild Wrote: Allah is originally a moon god that the Muslims try place in the roll of God.
I didn't know this. Could you elaborate more on Allah's origins?

It might take some time to get it together, but here's a short explanation of sorts. The Islamic symbol is a crescent moon, this is in reference to the ancient moon god which is the mother, the sun represents the father which is not part of the symbol, the star that is within the crescent is the son, I can't remember the significant of the star within the crescent. This came from an ancient religion in the south of Arabia, if I am not mistaken. Hope this will do for now.

GC

**Esquilax** · December 6, 2013 at 5:51 pm

(December 6, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Zazzy Wrote:
(December 6, 2013 at 12:59 pm)Godschild Wrote: Allah is originally a moon god that the Muslims try place in the roll of God.
I didn't know this. Could you elaborate more on Allah's origins?

You didn't know it because it's dead wrong. Allah is just another name for the same Abrahamic god that Christians worship; it's a different interpretation, but it's the same god. GC is just fabricating bullshit, here. Surprise, surprise.

Godscreated · December 6, 2013 at 6:03 pm

(December 6, 2013 at 5:51 pm)Esquilax Wrote:
(December 6, 2013 at 2:24 pm)Zazzy Wrote: I didn't know this. Could you elaborate more on Allah's origins?

You didn't know it because it's dead wrong. Allah is just another name for the same Abrahamic god that Christians worship; it's a different interpretation, but it's the same god. GC is just fabricating bullshit, here. Surprise, surprise.

No I'm not and since you seem to think so bring the proof.

GC

**Esquilax** · December 6, 2013 at 6:46 pm

(December 6, 2013 at 6:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: No I'm not and since you seem to think so bring the proof.

GC

God, you're so goddamn...

Have you not read the story of Isaac and Ishmael, GC? It's only in your own bible, I can't expect that you would have. Rolleyes

It does crop up in Islam too, you know, so when you do get around to reading it, you can see that the genealogy of the Arab people in the Islamic tradition comes from Ishmael, son of Abraham, grandson of Adam, the first man created by the Abrahamic god, you ignorant sod.

**Mystical** · December 6, 2013 at 7:23 pm

GC, were you replying to me about the Yahwey thing or the Muslim thing?

Optimistic Mysanthrope · December 6, 2013 at 7:30 pm

Esq, that doesn't necessarily mean that Allah was always equated with Yahweh. Allah could well have a pre-existing deity that was conflated with Yahweh in order to maintain cultural beliefs, practices and identity whilst adopting a new religion. After all, assimilation has long been one of christianity's greatest tools and I doubt they are the only faith to have used it.

(cue jokes about religious tools)

**Esquilax** · December 6, 2013 at 7:39 pm

(December 6, 2013 at 7:30 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: Esq, that doesn't necessarily mean that Allah was always equated with Yahweh. Allah could well have a pre-existing deity that was conflated with Yahweh in order to maintain cultural beliefs, practices and identity whilst adopting a new religion. After all, assimilation has long been one of christianity's greatest tools and I doubt they are the only faith to have used it.

(cue jokes about religious tools)

Granted, but I just thought GC would more willingly sit up and listen to something from his own holy screed. Fact is, there's a lot of crossover between the two religions in their holy books, and the general teachings of Islam accept that Allah either is the god of Abraham, or the two share a common source in the actual creative deity. To characterize Allah as some other god is simply incorrect, both in present and based upon the original writings of Islam's prophet.

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