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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 9, 2013 at 4:56 pm
(December 9, 2013 at 4:17 pm)snowtracks Wrote: (December 9, 2013 at 3:30 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Unless the universe's existence is not contingent, and you haven't proven that it is. We know the universe in its current configuration had a beginning, we do not know that the universe hasn't existed eternally in some form; and we don't know that it isn't a causeless effect. Effect doesn't even reliably follow cause within the universe (Casimir effect due to virtual particles appearing without cause comes to mind), and it's a fallacy of composition to assume that what applies within the universe applies TO the universe.
the U. had a beginning per theory of general relativity. no human has ever witness a violation of the cause-effect relationship, but of course were talking physics, not metaphysics.
metaphysics had a beginning ...when idiots invented it ......
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 9, 2013 at 8:15 pm
(December 9, 2013 at 3:20 pm)snowtracks Wrote: the U. is an effect which makes it a contingent reality ; hence, it's unable to create itself.
What does this have to do with what we are talking about? I was pointing out that possible doesn't mean probable. Are you just trying to divert the course of this conversation with unfounded assertions?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 10, 2013 at 12:28 am
(December 9, 2013 at 8:15 pm)Faith No More Wrote: (December 9, 2013 at 3:20 pm)snowtracks Wrote: the U. is an effect which makes it a contingent reality ; hence, it's unable to create itself.
What does this have to do with what we are talking about? I was pointing out that possible doesn't mean probable. Are you just trying to divert the course of this conversation with unfounded assertions?
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 10, 2013 at 1:27 am
(December 9, 2013 at 8:15 pm)Faith No More Wrote: (December 9, 2013 at 3:20 pm)snowtracks Wrote: the U. is an effect which makes it a contingent reality ; hence, it's unable to create itself.
What does this have to do with what we are talking about? I was pointing out that possible doesn't mean probable. Are you just trying to divert the course of this conversation with unfounded assertions?
possible doesn't mean probable. got it. but not disposed to laminate it for my wallet to carry around.
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 10, 2013 at 2:23 am
Are you ever going to respond to me again Snowtracks? 'Atheistic origin science' has no answer for the universe's existence, but I gave you a few possiblities that you stra manned then stopped responding to:
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 10, 2013 at 11:52 am
(December 10, 2013 at 1:27 am)snowtracks Wrote: possible doesn't mean probable. got it. but not disposed to laminate it for my wallet to carry around.
Yeah, wouldn't want you to learn anything, would we? 
Incidentally, I'm still waiting on that scientific proof that the easter bunny didn't create the universe, that you said you had a few pages back.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 10, 2013 at 1:55 pm
(This post was last modified: December 10, 2013 at 2:00 pm by Mister Agenda.)
General relativity and quantum mechanics break down at the singularity, we only know what happened in the 'second moment' of the initial expansion, not what preceded. We don't know how long the singularity was there before it expanded, whether it had ever expanded previously (it could be an eternal singularity that cycles through expansion and collapse), or whether it appeared out of the quantum foam.
Virtual particles and atomic decay are effects without causes and have been observed. Their behavior can be predicted statistically but it's impossible to predict when a given atom will decay or virtual particle pair appear because they are things that just happen. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle requires virtual particles to appear randomly and causelesly (because it is impossible to know the exact position and momentum of a particle simultaneously and position and momentum both being zero would be knowing where a particle does not exist and how it's not moving simultaneously) and that is what our instruments observe.
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 10, 2013 at 1:59 pm
(December 10, 2013 at 1:55 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle Treat the masters with respect!
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 10, 2013 at 2:00 pm
(December 10, 2013 at 1:59 pm)pocaracas Wrote: (December 10, 2013 at 1:55 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle Treat the masters with respect!
Thanks, fixed!
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RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
December 10, 2013 at 2:02 pm
(December 10, 2013 at 2:00 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: (December 10, 2013 at 1:59 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Treat the masters with respect!
Thanks, fixed!
You did good, my young apprentice...
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