(December 10, 2013 at 1:55 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: General relativity and quantum mechanics break down at the singularity, we only know what happened in the 'second moment' of the initial expansion, not what preceded. We don't know how long the singularity was there before it expanded, whether it had ever expanded previously (it could be an eternal singularity that cycles through expansion and collapse), or whether it appeared out of the quantum foam.

Virtual particles and atomic decay are effects without causes and have been observed. Their behavior can be predicted statistically but it's impossible to predict when a given atom will decay or virtual particle pair appear because they are things that just happen. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle requires virtual particles to appear randomly and causelesly (because it is impossible to know the exact position and momentum of a particle simultaneously and position and momentum both being zero would be knowing where a particle does not exist and how it's not moving simultaneously) and that is what our instruments observe.

I love these sorts of responses!!! Well put. You may want to wander into another thread about Universal Governors....

(December 10, 2013 at 3:10 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote:

(December 10, 2013 at 1:55 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: General relativity and quantum mechanics break down at the singularity, we only know what happened in the 'second moment' of the initial expansion, not what preceded. We don't know how long the singularity was there before it expanded, whether it had ever expanded previously (it could be an eternal singularity that cycles through expansion and collapse), or whether it appeared out of the quantum foam.

Virtual particles and atomic decay are effects without causes and have been observed. Their behavior can be predicted statistically but it's impossible to predict when a given atom will decay or virtual particle pair appear because they are things that just happen. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle requires virtual particles to appear randomly and causelesly (because it is impossible to know the exact position and momentum of a particle simultaneously and position and momentum both being zero would be knowing where a particle does not exist and how it's not moving simultaneously) and that is what our instruments observe.

I love these sorts of responses!!! Well put. You may want to wander into another thread about Universal Governors....

atomic decay are effects without causes - putting that one under the category of freedom of speech.

You should replace your signature with something less deceptive. Einstein definitely did not believe in your god.

“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”

Albert Einstein, in a letter March 24, 1954; from Albert Einstein the Human Side, Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, eds., Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1981, p. 43.


“My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.”

Albert Einstein in a letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215; from Alice Calaprice, ed., The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 2000, p. 216.

(December 11, 2013 at 2:46 am)snowtracks Wrote:

(December 10, 2013 at 3:10 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: I love these sorts of responses!!! Well put. You may want to wander into another thread about Universal Governors....

atomic decay are effects without causes - putting that one under the category of freedom of speech.

Virtual particles and atomic decay are effects without causes and have been observed

no they r not without cause ...and we know what causes it and how it works and when it decays..

its rather ur understanding of science is and effect without cause ..

I don't pretend to be a cosmologist, however I did like like this quote by Stephen hawking

“What I have done is to show that it is possible for the way the universe began to be determined by the laws of science. In that case, it would not be necessary to appeal to God to decide how the universe began. This doesn’t prove that there is no God, only that God is not necessary.”

(December 11, 2013 at 2:46 am)snowtracks Wrote: atomic decay are effects without causes - putting that one under the category of freedom of speech.

Trying to find a gap in human knowledge to cram in your god? Wouldn't it be pathetic if that were to end up being the last one? Then it would be known as "Snowtracks' "god of unexplained nuclear decay timing."

That would make for an interesting church!

(December 11, 2013 at 8:18 am)Brakeman Wrote:

(December 11, 2013 at 2:46 am)snowtracks Wrote: atomic decay are effects without causes - putting that one under the category of freedom of speech.

Trying to find a gap in human knowledge to cram in your god? Wouldn't it be pathetic if that were to end up being the last one? Then it would be known as "Snowtracks' "god of unexplained nuclear decay timing."

That would make for an interesting church!

Miracles have to move with the times . We've explained a lot of the stuff God used to take direct interventionalist credit for (lightning rainbows etc) , pickings are slim.

You can't put God in the gaps in science. If you do there is nowhere left for him when the gaps close.

(December 7, 2013 at 11:30 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote:

(December 7, 2013 at 11:08 pm)snowtracks Wrote: it's been proven that the easter bunny didn't; playing loose and easy with the evidence is a good way lose credibility

OK, I have to interject on this one...

Are you really trying to tell us that someone did a study on whether or not the Easter bunny created the universe? OK, I really need to see that one. Link, please

I believe that was humor.

(December 11, 2013 at 8:26 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote:

(December 11, 2013 at 8:18 am)Brakeman Wrote: Trying to find a gap in human knowledge to cram in your god? Wouldn't it be pathetic if that were to end up being the last one? Then it would be known as "Snowtracks' "god of unexplained nuclear decay timing."

That would make for an interesting church!

Miracles have to move with the times . We've explained a lot of the stuff God used to take direct interventionalist credit for (lightning rainbows etc) , pickings are slim.

You can't put God in the gaps in science. If you do there is nowhere left for him when the gaps close.

its more like god is subjected to evolution ...every now and then religion has to come up with other lies trying to make a case for him.

(December 11, 2013 at 8:41 am)daandaan Wrote:

(December 11, 2013 at 8:26 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Miracles have to move with the times . We've explained a lot of the stuff God used to take direct interventionalist credit for (lightning rainbows etc) , pickings are slim.

You can't put God in the gaps in science. If you do there is nowhere left for him when the gaps close.

its more like god is subjected to evolution ...every now and then religion has to come up with other lies trying to make a case for him.

Ooooo, that that is a deep and fascinating concept. Gods being Subject to evolutionary imperatives. Me likey!