(December 13, 2013 at 8:37 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote:

(December 13, 2013 at 7:54 pm)I and I Wrote: Evidence that Modern Israelis (not Jews) have any familial lineage to Jews of biblical times?


Put up or shit up boy.

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You don't have to have jurisdiction over a group of people to control and oppress them. The U.S. Didn't have jurisdiction over Iraq when it invaded and occupied and installed a puppet regime. Did they need jurisdiction to oppress and kill Iraqis? Nope.

You need to present evidence that Israelis are related Jews of biblical times.

No, I don't. What is written in the Bible probably didn't happen. The fact that the Jews were enslaved & shipped out of Israel in Roman times is all the evidence I need.

Also, someone else already posted a link showing that they are indeed related, you just chose to ignore it.

What and when was this evidence posted? Link the post. "Shipped out" by Romans. Do you have any evidence that most of them were forcibly removed from Israel? And what does this have to do with Israelis with european Caucasian features?

The world can not function if it is considered acceptable to reclaim a perceived debt from 2000 years ago. It would be even more disfunctional if the debt can be reclaimed by expropriation from those who had nothing to do with the debt.

That Jews were kicked out by the Romans 2000 years ago is not an piece of evidence in support of legitimacy of Jewish claim to Israel. Rather it is conclusive proof that Jewish had lost any right to it about 1800 years go.

(December 13, 2013 at 8:45 pm)Chuck Wrote: The world can not function if it is considered acceptable to reclaim a perceived debt from 2000 years ago. It would be even more disfunctional if the debt can be reclaimed by expropriation from those who had nothing to do with the debt.

"There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist." -Golda Meir

Quote:That Jews were kicked out by the Romans 2000 years ago is not an piece of evidence in support of legitimacy of Jewish claim to Israel. Rather it is conclusive proof that Jewish had lost any right to it about 1800 years go.

So those who face ethnic expulsion lose all rights to their land?

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(December 13, 2013 at 8:41 pm)I and I Wrote:

(December 13, 2013 at 8:37 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote: No, I don't. What is written in the Bible probably didn't happen. The fact that the Jews were enslaved & shipped out of Israel in Roman times is all the evidence I need.

Also, someone else already posted a link showing that they are indeed related, you just chose to ignore it.

What and when was this evidence posted? Link the post. "Shipped out" by Romans. Do you have any evidence that most of them were forcibly removed from Israel? And what does this have to do with Israelis with european Caucasian features?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_stu...opulations
http://www.pnas.org/content/97/12/6769.full
http://ftp.beitberl.ac.il/~bbsite/misc/e...05_123.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/05/09/scienc...spora.html

QUoting Gilda meir in defence of isreal is like quoting the bible to prove the existence of the flood.

People who have been expelled through ethnic cleansing certainly lose all claims to their land if they have not successfully reclaimed it when those who expelled them in the first place have in turn been displaced by other unrelated to original expulsion. The people who lived in Palestine in 1948, were not the romans, nor descendants of romans, nor even mostly descendants of people who had been part of the roman world. They should have been under no obligation whatsoever to inconvenience themselves in any way on account of Hadrian expulsion 1800 years ago.

OK, I'll walk you through what I saw at one of the gates of Jerusalem.

Crowds of white people walking through, various languages spoken, no problem.

At the side sitting on a low wall are 3 teenagers in green fatigues, there are 3 assault rifles resting either on the wall or leaning against it. One of the teenagers is a female, touching up her make-up in a compact.
Around the corner limps an older woman, in her 70s/80s with two large shopping bags, she's struggling up the slope towards the gate clearly in pain from her left leg. She happens to look arabic.

As soon as the teens spot her they grab their assault rifles and shout at her to stop. They reinforce this the males placing their palms on her shoulders. Surrounding her at point blank she has to drop her shopping, present some documentation presumably Id, which is scrutinised by the female teen before she goes through the shopping and firisking the old woman.

If you thought she was a possible terrorist would you stand within arms length of her as the troops did?
If it wasn't racist profile they were using to determine who was stopped why were none of the other people halted?

For the record I am anti-Zionist for exactly the same reason I am anti-BNP.
Nationalism is always wrong, noone has the right to any particular patch of ground on the basis of who they are.

(December 14, 2013 at 1:30 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: OK, I'll walk you through what I saw at one of the gates of Jerusalem.

Crowds of white people walking through, various languages spoken, no problem.

At the side sitting on a low wall are 3 teenagers in green fatigues, there are 3 assault rifles resting either on the wall or leaning against it. One of the teenagers is a female, touching up her make-up in a compact.
Around the corner limps an older woman, in her 70s/80s with two large shopping bags, she's struggling up the slope towards the gate clearly in pain from her left leg. She happens to look arabic.

As soon as the teens spot her they grab their assault rifles and shout at her to stop. They reinforce this the males placing their palms on her shoulders. Surrounding her at point blank she has to drop her shopping, present some documentation presumably Id, which is scrutinised by the female teen before she goes through the shopping and firisking the old woman.

If you thought she was a possible terrorist would you stand within arms length of her as the troops did?
If it wasn't racist profile they were using to determine who was stopped why were none of the other people halted?

For the record I am anti-Zionist for exactly the same reason I am anti-BNP.
Nationalism is always wrong, noone has the right to any particular patch of ground on the basis of who they are.

This is the gates of Jerusalem. Do you expect them to just let terrorists run lose. I could find many similar stories from any part of the world, so is everywhere apartheid?

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(December 14, 2013 at 12:53 pm)Chuck Wrote: QUoting Golda meir in defence of Israel is like quoting the bible to prove the existence of the flood.

No, because we happen to know Golda Meir actually fucking existed!

And there were no "Palestinians" at the time of Israel's creation.

Yeah...the war criminal Israelis used death squads reminiscent of the Schutzstaffel to intimidate the Arabs living in Israel to flee their homes in fear of their lives. When the Arabs had fled, the Israeli government carried out a census and the Arabs that were not present to register ended up losing their property to thieves.

(December 14, 2013 at 9:52 pm)Polaris Wrote: Yeah...the war criminal Israelis used death squads reminiscent of the Schutzstaffel to intimidate the Arabs living in Israel to flee their homes in fear of their lives. When the Arabs had fled, the Israeli government carried out a census and the Arabs that were not present to register ended up losing their property to thieves.

Comparing Jews founding their rightful nation to the SS, classy (sarcasm). How dare you say such things about the Jews! You are antisemitic to core.

(December 14, 2013 at 10:28 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote:

(December 14, 2013 at 9:52 pm)Polaris Wrote: Yeah...the war criminal Israelis used death squads reminiscent of the Schutzstaffel to intimidate the Arabs living in Israel to flee their homes in fear of their lives. When the Arabs had fled, the Israeli government carried out a census and the Arabs that were not present to register ended up losing their property to thieves.

Comparing Jews founding their rightful nation to the SS, classy (sarcasm). How dare you say such things about the Jews! You are antisemitic to core.

The family members I am closet to are Jews.

What you are saying is if I stood against the War on Terror, then I'd be un-American.

(December 14, 2013 at 10:39 pm)Polaris Wrote:

(December 14, 2013 at 10:28 pm)MarxRaptor Wrote: Comparing Jews founding their rightful nation to the SS, classy (sarcasm). How dare you say such things about the Jews! You are antisemitic to core.

The family members I am closet to are Jews.

What you are saying is if I stood against the War on Terror, then I'd be un-American.

No, because all Israel wants is peace. Unfortunately the Arabs, Persians & Moslems won't let it be.