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January 6, 2014 at 3:14 am (This post was last modified: January 6, 2014 at 3:15 am by Godscreated.)
(January 4, 2014 at 9:15 am)Zen Badger Wrote: So gods child, a question
In your theology a person who has lived a good worthy, sinless life but doesn't believe in your god is going to hell.
But a person who has lied, stolen, raped and murdered all his life but accepts Jesus just before he dies goes to heaven.
And you don't see a problem with this?
No one lives a sinless life, anyone who does not do the will of God sins, it's God's will that all accept Christ as their savior. Salvation is meant for all, so as long as anyone accepts Christ as their savior no matter how badly or how goodly they live, they will have a place in heaven.
GC
(January 5, 2014 at 12:28 pm)thepractice Wrote: The creation is a mix of good and evil because evil allows for the manifestation of good. Good cannot exist without evil.
Exactly were did you get that understanding from?
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(January 6, 2014 at 3:14 am)Godschild Wrote: No one lives a sinless life, anyone who does not do the will of God sins, it's God's will that all accept Christ as their savior. Salvation is meant for all, so as long as anyone accepts Christ as their savior no matter how badly or how goodly they live, they will have a place in heaven.
GC
So in your opinion the multiple murderer and the guy in court for a traffic violation should be given the same punishment?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
January 6, 2014 at 4:55 am (This post was last modified: January 6, 2014 at 4:59 am by Godscreated.)
(January 4, 2014 at 9:50 pm)StoryBook Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='576174' dateline='1388840453']
No it's not, love, peace, kindness, service and many other things are taught by scripture and in many churches. The scripture says a person goes to hell because of the sins that person commits, it also says that a person can find forgiveness of sin through Christ and the love He showed in His life death and resurrection.
GC Wrote:I do not know of any forcing to live a certain way, I do know and understand the transformation that takes place as we grow in a relationship with Christ. A Christian life is like any other life, you live it, there is no burden to it as you seem to believe. No one can live a life care free with no rules, life lived comes with some type of rules whether you're a Christian, atheist or whatever.
A Christian doesn't have to avoid anything, a Christian wants to avoid those things that are sinful, we are not perfect, we do sin and we understand we need forgiveness.
You have a great misunderstanding about hell other than you know it's a scary place. Actually it's a place of self made horror, a place where a person can find no love, it's a place where love can not exist, ever. Hate, despite, mean spirited, any and every kind of ugliness that's ever existed. A person will believe in God before they are in hell, they will be before Him in the Judgement. I do not believe God can hate even those who will spend eternity in hell, I see no reason that He would. If one kills in the name of God that doesn't mean they will be in hell, it's murder, invoking the name of God doesn't change the fact it's murder, and the person who perishes could be a Christian and go to heaven. I still do not see that you've shown that Christianity is threatening.
SB Wrote:So it is ok to kill in the name of god?
So you are really not afraid of going to hell? The treat of hell is not scary to you?
Didn't you read what I posted, it's murder, so to put it simply, no it's not okay. You are confusing what one does with forgiveness, a person who murders someone can still receive forgiveness through Christ and repent of the sin. It seems you're confused by some of the terms used in Christianity and by how one is forgiven.
No, I am not why should I be, I have Christ in my life, He is my redeemer the cleanser of my soul. He defeated hell and death, so there is no reason to be afraid. Only those who do not have Christ in their lives need be frightened of hell.
SB Wrote:
Sorry I guess I should of said more...My point is mistranslation.. "almah"is the Hebrew word for young woman or woman of marriageable age. "bethulah" is the Hebrew word for virgin. In the original text Mary is describe as "almah" NOT "bethulah". When translated to Greek it was misinterpreted.
GC Wrote:You're right, however that mistake in translation doesn't mean Mary wasn't a virgin, it does mean she was of the age to be married and this was the point the original translation was trying to make. A virgin could been of any age, young to old.
SB Wrote: So where did the "magic" birth come from?
Why the facepalm? Mary was a virgin but, there was no magic preformed, God doesn't do magic and to use that term shows a lack of understanding about a being capable of creating a universe. God can manipulate His creation to suit His will and He has many times.
SB Wrote:
You missed the point and helped prove it. It was in a different culture. Other religions are in different cultures. God apparently showed himself to one culture. The rest must be the only ones that "made up" gods, because god didn't love them. So they are doomed to sin, because they are in a different culture and do not understand that god appeared on the other side of the world-in a different place. All those doomed people on the other in a different place not knowing a thing of "greatness" happened.
GC Wrote:I do not think I misunderstood, the point I made was that today's culture didn't exist, so why should we expect the writings to be any different than they are. You do not expect the writings of other ancient literature to be any different than they are so why do you want a different standard for the Bible.
You're forgetting the book of Genesis where all people knew about God and then abandoned what they knew for gods that were only stone or wood, yes they abandoned the one living God. So God established a people to reveal Himself to the world once again, this is the purpose of the nation of Israel and they were, are and will be God's special people because of what they went through because of Him. God gave His Son as a sacrifice for mankind, He didn't forget anyone and as for those who have not or did not hear about Christ they will be judged by God fairly in what they did know about right living.
SB Wrote: Sorry your talking circles and missing logic.
Now why are you banging your head, you'll get a head ache doing that. I'm the one who has the understanding of scriptures, you said you were asking questions to learn, seems you would rather avoid leaning by acts such as, , , . Just because you do not understand scripture or agree with what I say, doesn't mean I'm talking in circles or abandoned reason.
GC Wrote:"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and whoever believes in Him (what He did and is) shall not perish but have everlasting life." Please show me how that verse could be in the slightest threatening.
It's good to see that there are some here that are willing to listen and learn. Thanks for being honest.
SB Wrote:If you don't believe you will parish. THAT IS A THREAT
Really, how so, I've not threatened you in any way. You need to prove what you're saying here, I do not care for your tone nor the shouting. If you are going to turn this discussion into a shout and get angry thing we should just end it.
GC Wrote:
God has never made a mistake, that would be something impossible for an omniscient being. You and I are responsible for our own sin, it can't be passed off to another. If God had not allowed Adam and Eve the free will to choose, then what kind of God would He be, you've expressed your desire not to be controlled by Him, do you think they would have felt differently. If they did, they sure didn't show it through their actions, they chose to disobey God ie. to be sinful. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your statement above. I'll try and give an answer though. Who says all people were going to hell before Christ and exactly what have you got against Christ being our substitute for our sin so we can go to heaven.
SB Wrote:Making sinful humans is not a mistake?
A happy, un-threatening one, that is bored?
GC Wrote:Not sure what you find funny. God made them perfect and with free will. They used that free will to defy God's commandment and caused their perfect state to be lost, and the relationship they had with God was lost. They understood what they had done, that's why they were hiding from God. Ever since that time God put His plan into place to redeem man so we could live in that perfect state with God.
SB Wrote:I guess they are NOT perfect if they sin...
Everything was perfect until they sinned, it was their choice to give up their perfection, not God's.
GC Wrote:I live in pain every minute of every day, so yes I understand pain, I also understand the mental pain of having sick loved ones, my dad is gone and my mom is not well and I worry every day about her. We just buried my wife's father who had been very sick for several years and I just lost an aunt yesterday who had been sick with a bad heart for some time. Yes I understand pain, well, both physically and mentally.
What I see is life and how things can turn out, I've been around for some time and have seen and lived through much, experience has a lot going for it when it comes to truth.
GC
SB Wrote:I am sorry to hear all that. I can understand know why YOU have have turned to god. You want answers and hope, which is only human. I guess god is the only thing keeping you from going more insane.
I appreciate your concern. Actually I was a Christian before all I explained happened, it was God who brought me through and still walks me through each day, and I'm grateful to Him for doing so. For who am I compared, no who are any of us compared to God the creator of the universe.
SB Wrote:You see I look at the world in a whole different "logic" then you. I SEE the world, without god, and can still find some comfort in it. I study animal behavior and have learned much about life through how they live. They do not worship a god, they live and die and just accept it. They seem to have more free will then we do. I try to find good in life and don't need some god or mistranslated old book to tell me what is right or wrong...
I understand you live by logic and it leaves no room for the Spiritual. I study animals myself, I raise and train Rottweilers and seen them do some really smart things. That would be smart for dogs, they are still far below humans and how our brains work. If you have ever trained a dog you would see that it is submissive to the one teaching it, it wants to please it's master. Being submissive doesn't mean they are some lowly thing to be looked down on, by no means, I have great respect for my dogs and their willingness to do things to please me, it's part of their nature and they are being true to that nature.
This is no different for humans, God created us less than He is, just like the dog is less than a human being. God has put it in man to be submissive, it's us who believe that submissiveness is a bad thing, when in reality it is part of a proper order. God wants and will teach us how to live a life that is pleasing to Him and we should be willing to submit and do so, He's the Master of the universe. You know who the greatest people are, those who have made it to the top. Do you know why they have made it to the top, because nothing is below them, they will do the most menial things to succeed. They see nothing that's to low for them to do to succeed, being a humble person has a lot going for it. This is what Christ meant when He told His disciples that "the least will be first and that the first will be last", He was saying live humbly and I will make you greater than those who believe they are great. Many non-believers here think that God was telling a wife she is lower than her husband because He says the wife is to be submissive to her husband. This couldn't be farther from the truth. God gave an order to the family and the man was given the position as head of the family and the wife was to submit to him, doesn't mean she is less than the husband, just like Christ is the head of the church and all Christians are to be submissive to Him. Christ said He was the groom(husband) and the church was the bride (Christians). So you see we can see God in the things He created if we'll just open our eyes to the truth.
GC
(January 6, 2014 at 4:41 am)Esquilax Wrote: [quote='Godschild' pid='577345' dateline='1388992464']
No one lives a sinless life, anyone who does not do the will of God sins, it's God's will that all accept Christ as their savior. Salvation is meant for all, so as long as anyone accepts Christ as their savior no matter how badly or how goodly they live, they will have a place in heaven.
GC
Equilax Wrote:So in your opinion the multiple murderer and the guy in court for a traffic violation should be given the same punishment?
They are not given the same punishment here or in eternity, you have a very misplaced sense of justice if you believe what you stated.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(January 6, 2014 at 4:55 am)Godschild Wrote: They are not given the same punishment here or in eternity, you have a very misplaced sense of justice if you believe what you stated.
GC
Do I not go to hell when I die for disbelieving, the same as the multiple murderer? Despite my charity work, my love for my family, the fact that I'm essentially a good person, will I not end up in exactly the same place as every killer and rapist and thug who never accepted your god?
Isn't that the deal, here? I mean, it's what you agreed to in the post of yours I quoted.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
(January 6, 2014 at 4:55 am)Godschild Wrote: They are not given the same punishment here or in eternity, you have a very misplaced sense of justice if you believe what you stated.
GC
Do I not go to hell when I die for disbelieving, the same as the multiple murderer? Despite my charity work, my love for my family, the fact that I'm essentially a good person, will I not end up in exactly the same place as every killer and rapist and thug who never accepted your god?
Isn't that the deal, here? I mean, it's what you agreed to in the post of yours I quoted.
Because it's not about justice, or good and evil.
It's only about gods desire to surround himself with fawning toadies and lackeys who will sing his praises all day long.
Because essentially god is a very insecure deity with daddy issues.
Odin on the other hand....much cooler.
And he doesn't need constant reassurance about how wonderful he is.
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
January 6, 2014 at 11:35 am (This post was last modified: January 6, 2014 at 11:55 am by StoryBook.)
(January 4, 2014 at 9:00 am)Godschild Wrote:
No it's not, love, peace, kindness, service and many other things are taught by scripture and in many churches. The scripture says a person goes to hell because of the sins that person commits, it also says that a person can find forgiveness of sin through Christ and the love He showed in His life death and resurrection.
GC Wrote:I do not know of any forcing to live a certain way, I do know and understand the transformation that takes place as we grow in a relationship with Christ. A Christian life is like any other life, you live it, there is no burden to it as you seem to believe. No one can live a life care free with no rules, life lived comes with some type of rules whether you're a Christian, atheist or whatever.
A Christian doesn't have to avoid anything, a Christian wants to avoid those things that are sinful, we are not perfect, we do sin and we understand we need forgiveness.
You have a great misunderstanding about hell other than you know it's a scary place. Actually it's a place of self made horror, a place where a person can find no love, it's a place where love can not exist, ever. Hate, despite, mean spirited, any and every kind of ugliness that's ever existed. A person will believe in God before they are in hell, they will be before Him in the Judgement. I do not believe God can hate even those who will spend eternity in hell, I see no reason that He would. If one kills in the name of God that doesn't mean they will be in hell, it's murder, invoking the name of God doesn't change the fact it's murder, and the person who perishes could be a Christian and go to heaven. I still do not see that you've shown that Christianity is threatening.
SB Wrote:So it is ok to kill in the name of god?
GC Wrote:Didn't you read what I posted, it's murder, so to put it simply, no it's not okay. You are confusing what one does with forgiveness, a person who murders someone can still receive forgiveness through Christ and repent of the sin. It seems you're confused by some of the terms used in Christianity and by how one is forgiven.
No, I am not why should I be, I have Christ in my life, He is my redeemer the cleanser of my soul. He defeated hell and death, so there is no reason to be afraid. Only those who do not have Christ in their lives need be frightened of hell.
I'm not confused, I find it disturbing that you can kill all you want and still get forgiveness and go to heaven.
SB Wrote:
Sorry I guess I should of said more...My point is mistranslation.. "almah"is the Hebrew word for young woman or woman of marriageable age. "bethulah" is the Hebrew word for virgin. In the original text Mary is describe as "almah" NOT "bethulah". When translated to Greek it was misinterpreted.
GC Wrote:
You're right, however that mistake in translation doesn't mean Mary wasn't a virgin, it does mean she was of the age to be married and this was the point the original translation was trying to make. A virgin could been of any age, young to old.
SB Wrote: So where did the "magic" birth come from?
GC Wrote:Why the facepalm? Mary was a virgin but, there was no magic preformed, God doesn't do magic and to use that term shows a lack of understanding about a being capable of creating a universe. God can manipulate His creation to suit His will and He has many times.
So he just "created" some baby in there instead of creating a son? Here is a thought Mary lost her virginity BEFORE being pregnant with Jesus.hock:
Hey, wait a minute isn't Adam gods son? God created him to. So he made a good and bad son. Then possessed his good son. What a mistake.
GC Wrote:Now why are you banging your head, you'll get a head ache doing that. I'm the one who has the understanding of scriptures, you said you were asking questions to learn, seems you would rather avoid leaning by acts such as, , , . Just because you do not understand scripture or agree with what I say, doesn't mean I'm talking in circles or abandoned reason.
I'm trying, you are not making since. Did you learn this stuff from others opinion, or did you really come to the conclusion on your own?
GC Wrote:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and whoever believes in Him (what He did and is) shall not perish but have everlasting life." Please show me how that verse could be in the slightest threatening.
It's good to see that there are some here that are willing to listen and learn. Thanks for being honest.
SB Wrote:If you don't believe you will parish. THAT IS A THREAT
Quote:Really, how so, I've not threatened you in any way. You need to prove what you're saying here, I do not care for your tone nor the shouting. If you are going to turn this discussion into a shout and get angry thing we should just end it.
Didn't mean to yell, was just making a point.
To me this is like go left and do what I say, go right and I will shoot you. That is a threat, and how I see the quote you posted as a threat. Follow god or parish.
SB Wrote:I guess they are NOT perfect if they sin...
GC Wrote:Everything was perfect until they sinned, it was their choice to give up their perfection, not God's.
If they were programed to sin, then they are not perfect. God created them, God created free will. The free will is not perfect. God is not perfect. God lies,deceives, causes/allows pain...
SB Wrote:You see I look at the world in a whole different "logic" then you. I SEE the world, without god, and can still find some comfort in it. I study animal behavior and have learned much about life through how they live. They do not worship a god, they live and die and just accept it. They seem to have more free will then we do. I try to find good in life and don't need some god or mistranslated old book to tell me what is right or wrong...
GC Wrote:I understand you live by logic and it leaves no room for the Spiritual. I study animals myself, I raise and train Rottweilers and seen them do some really smart things. That would be smart for dogs, they are still far below humans and how our brains work. If you have ever trained a dog you would see that it is submissive to the one teaching it, it wants to please it's master. Being submissive doesn't mean they are some lowly thing to be looked down on, by no means, I have great respect for my dogs and their willingness to do things to please me, it's part of their nature and they are being true to that nature.
This is no different for humans, God created us less than He is, just like the dog is less than a human being. God has put it in man to be submissive, it's us who believe that submissiveness is a bad thing, when in reality it is part of a proper order. God wants and will teach us how to live a life that is pleasing to Him and we should be willing to submit and do so, He's the Master of the universe. You know who the greatest people are, those who have made it to the top. Do you know why they have made it to the top, because nothing is below them, they will do the most menial things to succeed. They see nothing that's to low for them to do to succeed, being a humble person has a lot going for it. This is what Christ meant when He told His disciples that "the least will be first and that the first will be last", He was saying live humbly and I will make you greater than those who believe they are great. Many non-believers here think that God was telling a wife she is lower than her husband because He says the wife is to be submissive to her husband. This couldn't be farther from the truth. God gave an order to the family and the man was given the position as head of the family and the wife was to submit to him, doesn't mean she is less than the husband, just like Christ is the head of the church and all Christians are to be submissive to Him. Christ said He was the groom(husband) and the church was the bride (Christians). So you see we can see God in the things He created if we'll just open our eyes to the truth.
GC
Oh I have "spirit", just don't believe in god(s). I believe we are all energy of different types.
Animals have BOTH dominant and/or submissive traits. I have been around many breeds of dogs and trained both dogs and horses. What makes us different is that humans developed the neocortex layer of the brain. There are many dogs, horses and animals in general that are dominant and don't listened to a thing you say. Dog were bred from wolves. Many wolf traits were bred out;also there were bred for different sizes of dogs now. That's why we have chihuahuas and great danes. Kinda reminds you of how evolution works.
(January 6, 2014 at 4:55 am)Godschild Wrote: They are not given the same punishment here or in eternity, you have a very misplaced sense of justice if you believe what you stated.
GC
Do I not go to hell when I die for disbelieving, the same as the multiple murderer? Despite my charity work, my love for my family, the fact that I'm essentially a good person, will I not end up in exactly the same place as every killer and rapist and thug who never accepted your god?
Isn't that the deal, here? I mean, it's what you agreed to in the post of yours I quoted.
I didn't agree to the same punishment, I agreed to the same place, just as a drunk driver spends time in prison, so do murderers, yet their punishments are different, why do you believe hell is any different?
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(January 6, 2014 at 11:35 am)StoryBook Wrote: So it is ok to kill in the name of god?
GC Wrote:Didn't you read what I posted, it's murder, so to put it simply, no it's not okay. You are confusing what one does with forgiveness, a person who murders someone can still receive forgiveness through Christ and repent of the sin. It seems you're confused by some of the terms used in Christianity and by how one is forgiven.
No, I am not why should I be, I have Christ in my life, He is my redeemer the cleanser of my soul. He defeated hell and death, so there is no reason to be afraid. Only those who do not have Christ in their lives need be frightened of hell.
SB Wrote:I'm not confused, I find it disturbing that you can kill all you want and still get forgiveness and go to heaven.
No on said a person can kill all they want and go to heaven, contrary to what you think that's not how it is. Like I said you are confused about Christianity, it's terms and forgiveness. One who continually commits murder has not in reality repented of their sin, without repentance there is no forgiveness.
SB Wrote: So where did the "magic" birth come from?
GC Wrote:Why the facepalm? Mary was a virgin but, there was no magic preformed, God doesn't do magic and to use that term shows a lack of understanding about a being capable of creating a universe. God can manipulate His creation to suit His will and He has many times.
SB Wrote: So he just "created" some baby in there instead of creating a son? Here is a thought Mary lost her virginity BEFORE being pregnant with Jesus.hock:
One who creates an entire universe would have no problem in creating a fetus that grows into a baby that grows into an adult. The Son has always been, God created a human body for Him to reside in, just like you reside in a body of flesh.
Here's an intelligent thought, scriptures say she was a virgin, since you seem to believe differently you need to show that God couldn't cause a virgin to become pregnant with a male child.
SB Wrote:Hey, wait a minute isn't Adam gods son? God created him to. So he made a good and bad son. Then possessed his good son. What a mistake.
God created Adam a perfect human, it was Adams choice to reject God's authority and become a sinful creature. That was against God's will, God is not responsible for Adams fall. Why would God being omniscient cause Adam to sin, sin cost God his Son.
GC Wrote:Now why are you banging your head, you'll get a head ache doing that. I'm the one who has the understanding of scriptures, you said you were asking questions to learn, seems you would rather avoid leaning by acts such as, , , . Just because you do not understand scripture or agree with what I say, doesn't mean I'm talking in circles or abandoned reason.
SB Wrote:I'm trying, you are not making since. Did you learn this stuff from others opinion, or did you really come to the conclusion on your own?
Just as any student learns, I had guidance in studying scriptures. Some of the things I believe are not a part of the Southern Baptist Church, so yes I have come to some beliefs through the scriptures that my peers do not believe. When you decide to make fun of a subject instead of looking at it with some sort of honesty how is it you believe you are trying to learn. You've gone from asking questions about God and scripture to questioning what I know, that is not called learning, it's simply saying a person knows more than the teacher, Christ actually taught on this.
GC Wrote:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and whoever believes in Him (what He did and is) shall not perish but have everlasting life." Please show me how that verse could be in the slightest threatening.
SB Wrote:If you don't believe you will parish. THAT IS A THREAT
GC Wrote:Really, how so, I've not threatened you in any way. You need to prove what you're saying here, I do not care for your tone nor the shouting. If you are going to turn this discussion into a shout and get angry thing we should just end it.
SB Wrote:Didn't mean to yell, was just making a point.
To me this is like go left and do what I say, go right and I will shoot you. That is a threat, and how I see the quote you posted as a threat. Follow god or parish.
The truth of a life is God is just and knows what will be best for His creation and people. God doesn't intend hell to be a threat, it's a place of punishment, the punishment a person receives is of that persons choice and making. Just like the laws of the countries we live in, God's law (hell) is meant as a deterrent, not a threat. Those who see hell as a threat are scared but, they do not want to change, they want to live their life totally their way, it's like having your cake and eating it. You are a creation of God, you wouldn't be if He had not allowed it, so don't you think we owe our creator some type of respect?
SB Wrote:I guess they are NOT perfect if they sin...
GC Wrote:Everything was perfect until they sinned, it was their choice to give up their perfection, not God's.
SB Wrote:If they were programed to sin, then they are not perfect. God created them, God created free will. The free will is not perfect. God is not perfect. God lies,deceives, causes/allows pain...
God did not program man to sin, you are contradicting the terms you use. Programming a man to sin and giving Him free will to choose is an out right contradiction. Free will is not perfect nor imperfect, it is what it is, a freedom to choose. God is perfect, flawless in all things.
SB Wrote:You see I look at the world in a whole different "logic" then you. I SEE the world, without god, and can still find some comfort in it. I study animal behavior and have learned much about life through how they live. They do not worship a god, they live and die and just accept it. They seem to have more free will then we do. I try to find good in life and don't need some god or mistranslated old book to tell me what is right or wrong...
GC Wrote:I understand you live by logic and it leaves no room for the Spiritual. I study animals myself, I raise and train Rottweilers and seen them do some really smart things. That would be smart for dogs, they are still far below humans and how our brains work. If you have ever trained a dog you would see that it is submissive to the one teaching it, it wants to please it's master. Being submissive doesn't mean they are some lowly thing to be looked down on, by no means, I have great respect for my dogs and their willingness to do things to please me, it's part of their nature and they are being true to that nature.
This is no different for humans, God created us less than He is, just like the dog is less than a human being. God has put it in man to be submissive, it's us who believe that submissiveness is a bad thing, when in reality it is part of a proper order. God wants and will teach us how to live a life that is pleasing to Him and we should be willing to submit and do so, He's the Master of the universe. You know who the greatest people are, those who have made it to the top. Do you know why they have made it to the top, because nothing is below them, they will do the most menial things to succeed. They see nothing that's to low for them to do to succeed, being a humble person has a lot going for it. This is what Christ meant when He told His disciples that "the least will be first and that the first will be last", He was saying live humbly and I will make you greater than those who believe they are great. Many non-believers here think that God was telling a wife she is lower than her husband because He says the wife is to be submissive to her husband. This couldn't be farther from the truth. God gave an order to the family and the man was given the position as head of the family and the wife was to submit to him, doesn't mean she is less than the husband, just like Christ is the head of the church and all Christians are to be submissive to Him. Christ said He was the groom(husband) and the church was the bride (Christians). So you see we can see God in the things He created if we'll just open our eyes to the truth.
GC
SB Wrote:Oh I have "spirit", just don't believe in god(s). I believe we are all energy of different types.
Animals have BOTH dominant and/or submissive traits. I have been around many breeds of dogs and trained both dogs and horses. What makes us different is that humans developed the neocortex layer of the brain. There are many dogs, horses and animals in general that are dominant and don't listened to a thing you say. Dog were bred from wolves. Many wolf traits were bred out;also there were bred for different sizes of dogs now. That's why we have chihuahuas and great danes. Kinda reminds you of how evolution works.
I didn't say anything about having spirit, I was speaking of the Spiritual, a big difference. Please explain to me how we have different energies, I do not know of any scientific evidence for this.
Man was created with an advanced brain there was no need to develop it. Yes I have dogs who are dominate, but not to me and I've never seen a dog I can not train, I appeal to their nature of submissiveness, they all have it one needs to learn and use it to train with. You mean evolution works by something being manipulated by a superior being, strange I wasn't taught that, I thought evolution was a blind process. I mean how could it be anything but blind, evolution has no intelligence, no goal, just blind luck, that is if evolution were a real thing.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(January 6, 2014 at 9:24 pm)Godschild Wrote: I didn't agree to the same punishment, I agreed to the same place, just as a drunk driver spends time in prison, so do murderers, yet their punishments are different, why do you believe hell is any different?
GC
You wouldn't happen to have a biblical reference for that claim, would you?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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January 7, 2014 at 12:43 pm (This post was last modified: January 7, 2014 at 12:45 pm by StoryBook.)
(January 6, 2014 at 11:05 pm)Godschild Wrote: No on said a person can kill all they want and go to heaven, contrary to what you think that's not how it is. Like I said you are confused about Christianity, it's terms and forgiveness. One who continually commits murder has not in reality repented of their sin, without repentance there is no forgiveness.
Someone should tell god that.
GC Wrote:One who creates an entire universe would have no problem in creating a fetus that grows into a baby that grows into an adult. The Son has always been, God created a human body for Him to reside in, just like you reside in a body of flesh.
Here's an intelligent thought, scriptures say she was a virgin, since you seem to believe differently you need to show that God couldn't cause a virgin to become pregnant with a male child.
Oh your god can do anything. Your the ones the assumes she is a virgin, when it doesn't say so.
So god raped Mary? He impregnated her against her free will.
GC Wrote:God created Adam a perfect human, it was Adams choice to reject God's authority and become a sinful creature. That was against God's will, God is not responsible for Adams fall. Why would God being omniscient cause Adam to sin, sin cost God his Son.
how do you not see this. If god is all knowing then he would know Adam will sin. He made Adam and Jesus, but made Adam with "free will" to sin. He made Jesus not sin.
GC Wrote:Now why are you banging your head, you'll get a head ache doing that. I'm the one who has the understanding of scriptures, you said you were asking questions to learn, seems you would rather avoid leaning by acts such as, , , . Just because you do not understand scripture or agree with what I say, doesn't mean I'm talking in circles or abandoned reason.
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Just as any student learns, I had guidance in studying scriptures. Some of the things I believe are not a part of the Southern Baptist Church, so yes I have come to some beliefs through the scriptures that my peers do not believe. When you decide to make fun of a subject instead of looking at it with some sort of honesty how is it you believe you are trying to learn. You've gone from asking questions about God and scripture to questioning what I know, that is not called learning, it's simply saying a person knows more than the teacher, Christ actually taught on this.[/quote]
GC Wrote:The truth of a life is God is just and knows what will be best for His creation and people. God doesn't intend hell to be a threat, it's a place of punishment, the punishment a person receives is of that persons choice and making. Just like the laws of the countries we live in, God's law (hell) is meant as a deterrent, not a threat. Those who see hell as a threat are scared but, they do not want to change, they want to live their life totally their way, it's like having your cake and eating it. You are a creation of God, you wouldn't be if He had not allowed it, so don't you think we owe our creator some type of respect?
SB Wrote:I guess they are NOT perfect if they sin...
Quote:God did not program man to sin, you are contradicting the terms you use. Programming a man to sin and giving Him free will to choose is an out right contradiction. Free will is not perfect nor imperfect, it is what it is, a freedom to choose. God is perfect, flawless in all things.
Oh the irony.
(January 2, 2014 at 10:04 am)Godschild Wrote: People are not trying to translate the Bible into what they want people so see
Like I said YOU are not making sense. I'm trying to learn what you think, but you keep contradicting yourself. You are telling me that there is one god, but you don't know that he is correct. You say the book is written for everyone to understand, but you change your impression on it. Shouldn't everyone be able to agree 100%, not have different variations?
SB Wrote:You see I look at the world in a whole different "logic" then you. I SEE the world, without god, and can still find some comfort in it. I study animal behavior and have learned much about life through how they live. They do not worship a god, they live and die and just accept it. They seem to have more free will then we do. I try to find good in life and don't need some god or mistranslated old book to tell me what is right or wrong...
GC Wrote:
I understand you live by logic and it leaves no room for the Spiritual. I study animals myself, I raise and train Rottweilers and seen them do some really smart things. That would be smart for dogs, they are still far below humans and how our brains work. If you have ever trained a dog you would see that it is submissive to the one teaching it, it wants to please it's master. Being submissive doesn't mean they are some lowly thing to be looked down on, by no means, I have great respect for my dogs and their willingness to do things to please me, it's part of their nature and they are being true to that nature.
This is no different for humans, God created us less than He is, just like the dog is less than a human being. God has put it in man to be submissive, it's us who believe that submissiveness is a bad thing, when in reality it is part of a proper order. God wants and will teach us how to live a life that is pleasing to Him and we should be willing to submit and do so, He's the Master of the universe. You know who the greatest people are, those who have made it to the top. Do you know why they have made it to the top, because nothing is below them, they will do the most menial things to succeed. They see nothing that's to low for them to do to succeed, being a humble person has a lot going for it. This is what Christ meant when He told His disciples that "the least will be first and that the first will be last", He was saying live humbly and I will make you greater than those who believe they are great. Many non-believers here think that God was telling a wife she is lower than her husband because He says the wife is to be submissive to her husband. This couldn't be farther from the truth. God gave an order to the family and the man was given the position as head of the family and the wife was to submit to him, doesn't mean she is less than the husband, just like Christ is the head of the church and all Christians are to be submissive to Him. Christ said He was the groom(husband) and the church was the bride (Christians). So you see we can see God in the things He created if we'll just open our eyes to the truth.
GC
SB Wrote:Oh I have "spirit", just don't believe in god(s). I believe we are all energy of different types.
Animals have BOTH dominant and/or submissive traits. I have been around many breeds of dogs and trained both dogs and horses. What makes us different is that humans developed the neocortex layer of the brain. There are many dogs, horses and animals in general that are dominant and don't listened to a thing you say. Dog were bred from wolves. Many wolf traits were bred out;also there were bred for different sizes of dogs now. That's why we have chihuahuas and great danes. Kinda reminds you of how evolution works.
Quote:I didn't say anything about having spirit, I was speaking of the Spiritual, a big difference. Please explain to me how we have different energies, I do not know of any scientific evidence for this.
I said I believe. Also I you had scientific evidence would you really believe it?After all you are blind to evolution... You see very closed minded and one sided.Its odd that a magic birth and a human walking on water is more believable then evolution.
I might explain my crazy observation later, for now i guess you can think of it "like" Buddhism
Quote:Man was created with an advanced brain there was no need to develop it. Yes I have dogs who are dominate, but not to me and I've never seen a dog I can not train, I appeal to their nature of submissiveness, they all have it one needs to learn and use it to train with. You mean evolution works by something being manipulated by a superior being, strange I wasn't taught that, I thought evolution was a blind process. I mean how could it be anything but blind, evolution has no intelligence, no goal, just blind luck, that is if evolution were a real thing.
GC
WOW, you see only what you want. Do you do this to things that are not in the bible?
I was comparing it to the fact that you can get different variations though genetics and genetic mutations( Chihuahua and great dane coming from a wolf ancestor). I'm really not going to teach the whole evolution thing. You have to look at it yourself because it is a lot to explain, and you have shown that you do not understand it
So where did the "magic" birth come from?
Sorry your talking circles and missing logic.
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to things that are not in the bible?
