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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 10:18 am
(This post was last modified: January 15, 2014 at 10:21 am by Godscreated.)
(January 14, 2014 at 9:01 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: (January 14, 2014 at 6:58 pm)Godschild Wrote:
GC No actually it was because I told a inappropriate joke about Jesus. Either way it does not matter your method failed and I'm not the only one here that can attest to that.
So you thought that simply asking for the forgivness was not enough, that sound like your idea of salvation. It's not my method, salvation is God's plan, seems you trusted it at first, then you make a mistake and change how God's plan works.
GC
(January 15, 2014 at 5:25 am)Yahweh Wrote: I have a question for all of you christians; what if you're wrong?
We aren't, so how will you deal with this truth is a question you personally needs to answer.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 10:40 am
(This post was last modified: January 15, 2014 at 11:17 am by Drich.)
(January 14, 2014 at 5:22 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: What about me as a christian terrified of hell desperately praying for god to strengthen my faith and make a better Christian? If your faith/house was built on sand(Religion rather than the God of the bible/Jesus) and you prayed to become a better christian then your atheism is an answer to your prayer.
Fore if you had a toxic view of God and Christianity and you wanted a better one then the only thing to do is tear down your house/faith by the wind and rains of life, and allow you the Oppertunity to rebuild this time on the rock of Christ.
(January 14, 2014 at 4:36 pm)Drich Wrote: Because instead of helping these people he chose for them to burn in hell instead. God simply enforces the desision we make for ourselves in this life. If people choose Hell over an eternity with God, then God will simple see to it they get what they spent a life time seeking. (Seperation between themselves and God.)
(January 15, 2014 at 4:31 am)Esquilax Wrote: (January 15, 2014 at 12:30 am)Drich Wrote: I disagree, matter of fact I see mountains of doubt being moved all the time.
Unless that mountain of doubt occupied a definite spatial coordinate through which it could be moved, you're equivocating pretty blatantly, not to mention pathetically.
Oh, and even if you're right, you're wrong anyway: "Nothing will be impossible to you," is pretty clearly in favor of literal mountain moving.
Let go back to the greek and see what Jesus was talking about rather than just guessing (badly) about it shall we?
The passage in question is found in Mat 17: 14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.”
17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment.
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”
20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” [21]
Just in the context of the passage we can see Jesus nor his deciples were not trying to move a 1000ft mass of sand and stone. The deciples were trying to cast out a demon. Yet In the english we have the text reporting that Jesus identified this task as moving a mountain. This would have me ask what word did He orginally use and what was it's meaning?
The word in the greek is ὄρος oros It can mean a literal mountain, but again since the context does not support that understanding So if we turn to the Thyares lexicon we see the word oros can also mean (in this context)" to accomplish a most difficult task, to accomplish stupendous or incrediable things."
Kinda like how we sometimes use the word to describe a huge task.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...3735&t=KJV
(January 15, 2014 at 5:25 am)Yahweh Wrote: I have a question for all of you christians; what if you're wrong?
then nothing, now let me ask what if you Atheists are Wrong?
Answer: There will be Hell to pay. 
(January 15, 2014 at 10:03 am)KUSA Wrote: (January 15, 2014 at 12:30 am)Drich Wrote: I disagree, matter of fact I see mountains of doubt being moved all the time.
This statement is a cop out and you know it. Please retort in a literal sense instead of talking in metaphors or allegory.
the the post to esq
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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 11:50 am
(This post was last modified: January 15, 2014 at 11:53 am by Lemonvariable72.)
(January 15, 2014 at 10:40 am)Drich Wrote: (January 14, 2014 at 5:22 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: What about me as a christian terrified of hell desperately praying for god to strengthen my faith and make a better Christian? If your faith/house was built on sand(Religion rather than the God of the bible/Jesus) and you prayed to become a better christian then your atheism is an answer to your prayer.
Fore if you had a toxic view of God and Christianity and you wanted a better one then the only thing to do is tear down your house/faith by the wind and rains of life, and allow you the Oppertunity to rebuild this time on the rock of Christ.
(January 14, 2014 at 4:36 pm)Drich Wrote: Because instead of helping these people he chose for them to burn in hell instead. God simply enforces the desision we make for ourselves in this life. If people choose Hell over an eternity with God, then God will simple see to it they get what they spent a life time seeking. (Seperation between themselves and God.)
(January 15, 2014 at 4:31 am)Esquilax Wrote: Unless that mountain of doubt occupied a definite spatial coordinate through which it could be moved, you're equivocating pretty blatantly, not to mention pathetically.
Oh, and even if you're right, you're wrong anyway: "Nothing will be impossible to you," is pretty clearly in favor of literal mountain moving.
Let go back to the greek and see what Jesus was talking about rather than just guessing (badly) about it shall we?
The passage in question is found in Mat 17: 14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him. 15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.”
17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me.” 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed at that moment.
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”
20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.” [21]
Just in the context of the passage we can see Jesus nor his deciples were not trying to move a 1000ft mass of sand and stone. The deciples were trying to cast out a demon. Yet In the english we have the text reporting that Jesus identified this task as moving a mountain. This would have me ask what word did He orginally use and what was it's meaning?
The word in the greek is ὄρος oros It can mean a literal mountain, but again since the context does not support that understanding So if we turn to the Thyares lexicon we see the word oros can also mean (in this context)" to accomplish a most difficult task, to accomplish stupendous or incrediable things."
Kinda like how we sometimes use the word to describe a huge task.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...3735&t=KJV
(January 15, 2014 at 5:25 am)Yahweh Wrote: I have a question for all of you christians; what if you're wrong?
then nothing, now let me ask what if you Atheists are Wrong?
Answer: There will be Hell to pay.
(January 15, 2014 at 10:03 am)KUSA Wrote: This statement is a cop out and you know it. Please retort in a literal sense instead of talking in metaphors or allegory.
the the post to esq
I'm going to spell this for you very bluntly. I tired your method the exact way you describe as a god fearing Christian and got nothing, absolutely nothing. This was sometime( 6 months to a 2 years) before I lost my faith altogether when I realized that the god of the bible sounds exactly like a abusive husband.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 1:11 pm
@ Drich
I understand what you are saying but if I can't take the words of jesus literally then the bible isn't very credible.
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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 1:23 pm
(January 15, 2014 at 11:50 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I'm going to spell this for you very bluntly. I tired your method the exact way you describe as a god fearing Christian and got nothing, absolutely nothing. This was sometime( 6 months to a 2 years) before I lost my faith altogether when I realized that the god of the bible sounds exactly like a abusive husband. If you did try it 'my way' you would still be working on it. for my way follows the example in Luke 11. In Luke 11 we are told to 'knock' (or continue to ask and seek) till we get what we are looking for. You stopped far short. Therefore you could not have done it 'my way.'
I'm sure if you are use to doing things 'your way' and God will not acknoweledge you when you do things 'your way' He could easily be labled as abusive...
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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 1:24 pm
(January 14, 2014 at 1:01 pm)xpastor Wrote: Also unfairly treated compared to people in biblical times. You know, all those earnest 1st century fact checkers who had hard evidence that the resurrection really happened. 
![[Image: 099-Gods-version-of-evidence.jpeg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.atheistmemebase.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F12%2F099-Gods-version-of-evidence.jpeg)
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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 1:26 pm
(This post was last modified: January 15, 2014 at 1:29 pm by Drich.)
(January 14, 2014 at 9:01 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: No actually it was because I told a inappropriate joke about Jesus. Either way it does not matter your method failed and I'm not the only one here that can attest to that.
that is like saying a low carb diet did not help you loose weight, and you know this to be true because you gave up all carbs, except pasta, and pizza... and cookies, but all other carbs you cut out of your diet, and the diet did not work!
(January 15, 2014 at 1:11 pm)KUSA Wrote: @Drich
I understand what you are saying but if I can't take the words of jesus literally then the bible isn't very credible.
But your not looking at Christ's words are you? Your looking at a literal translation. which is an approximation of what Jesus would have said if he were speaking in english.
So when ever there is confusion or misunderstand 'we' must go back to the orginal language to decern what was actually said... Just like we would with any other text modern or ancient.
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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 1:29 pm
(January 15, 2014 at 1:26 pm)Drich Wrote: (January 14, 2014 at 9:01 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: No actually it was because I told a inappropriate joke about Jesus. Either way it does not matter your method failed and I'm not the only one here that can attest to that.
that is like saying a low carb diet did not help you loose weight, and you know this to be true because you gave up all carbs, except pasta, and pizza... and cookies, but all other carbs you cut out of your diet, and the diet did not work! That's not true at all. I followed the exact a/s/k method you described, because I was afraid I'd committed blasphemy and was seeking the love and forgiveness of the lord.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 1:40 pm
Right so Lemon failed because he stopped. If he had kept going it would have worked..... eventually.
Anyone reminded of that episode of the legend of aang with the fortune teller and the red shoes?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Do Christians actually want evidence?
January 15, 2014 at 1:41 pm
(This post was last modified: January 15, 2014 at 1:49 pm by Drich.)
(January 15, 2014 at 1:29 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: (January 15, 2014 at 1:26 pm)Drich Wrote: that is like saying a low carb diet did not help you loose weight, and you know this to be true because you gave up all carbs, except pasta, and pizza... and cookies, but all other carbs you cut out of your diet, and the diet did not work! That's not true at all. I followed the exact a/s/k method you described, because I was afraid I'd committed blasphemy and was seeking the love and forgiveness of the lord.
again if you did not find God and stopped Asking and seeking then you did not follow the model in luke 11. You may have very earnestly asked and sought, but you did not knock. 1/3 of everything Jesus has to say in that passage is on the importance of knocking. If you did not knock you did not complete the perscribed path. therefore you did not do it 'my' or rather God's way.
(January 15, 2014 at 1:40 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Right so Lemon failed because he stopped. If he had kept going it would have worked..... eventually.
Anyone reminded of that episode of the legend of aang with the fortune teller and the red shoes?
If lemon kept going more than likely he would have come to a point or a realization that his current model of faith was not valid, therefore putting him is a situation to question everything, (and hold on to what is good. ) which is what we are told to do in 1thess 5:21.
the other option is to question and dismiss everything you once believed, and never look at any of it again, or even to go as far as ignoring anything God may do for him in the furtue.
This is where the knocking comes in. If Lemon were to keep knocking (and holding on to what is good) He would slowly rebuild his faith on Christ, allowing him to open his eyes and ears to God.
As it is God answered his prayer and help him get rid of the toxic elements of his faith, all lemon (or any of the rest of you who were/are in his situation) has to do now is to be faithful to this 'rest' and start to build on the clean slate God gave him.
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