(February 17, 2014 at 4:24 pm)Stimbo Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ay3w2ijwwsref=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKEUujz12S4

Well, you got the definition right but I still don't think you understand the atheist position. Due to that phrase 'Though naturally you have no good reason not to believe'. I'm curious, what do you think is a good reason for not believing in the existence of your god?
You are so sure of 'all of the crushing evidence' yet you have not presented any. Tell me, what would be the main piece of evidence that convinces you that god exists?

(February 17, 2014 at 4:37 pm)Stimbo Wrote: We must give ourselves in to Christ - or else what?

Oh great, now we're going to get the turn or burn argument again.

You did that Stimbo. It's on you.

If you want ratatouille, you must first catch your rat.

(February 17, 2014 at 1:14 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: That was a good deflection shot straight back at you there, and a punishing blow delivered.

My sister hits harder.

(February 17, 2014 at 2:17 pm)pocaracas Wrote: SoC, assume for a moment that there is no god.
Don't worry about how the universe came into being, for now...

It's a pretty big assumption but ok. You may as well ask me to assume that Earth is the only planet in the universe with life on it, it's possible but you can see why it's not the kind of thing you would assume.

Quote:Now, look at every believer you know... look at every religion you are aware of (even the dead ones).

I'm looking. I feel the need to correct them on certain details particularly if they're worshiping statues, that's a mistake right there.

Quote:Present me with a mechanism that can account for them. (don't forget, you're working under the assumption that there is no god whatsoever)

Human imagination that's why you have images of gods in the form of carved wood and stone and so on and these beings control the elements of nature. Though not all people back then necessarily prescribed to this view of the universe the ancient Greek and Egyptian philosophers tended to see them in terms of the human abstractions they were without help from any revelation regarding God as depicted in the Bible. But the urge to reach out to something beyond the human and natural world was always present however poorly it was expressed. People still needed the right guidance.

Quote:If such a mechanism is possible, and given that bronze-age man would have had to obtain something on which to base his early belief... and the lack of any such something nowadays... would it not seem plausible to you that such beliefs are all man-made?

Man-made to a certain extent the human imagination was a factor though you won't see any societies or cultures of atheists in all of history that seems to be something that has to be entirely imposed and doesn't come naturally.

(February 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

Quote:Present me with a mechanism that can account for them. (don't forget, you're working under the assumption that there is no god whatsoever)

Human imagination that's why you have images of gods in the form of carved wood and stone and so on and these beings control the elements of nature. Though not all people back then necessarily prescribed to this view of the universe the ancient Greek and Egyptian philosophers tended to see them in terms of the human abstractions they were without help from any revelation regarding God as depicted in the Bible. But the urge to reach out to something beyond the human and natural world was always present however poorly it was expressed. People still needed the right guidance.

The urge to live further than the frail human body allows, yes...

(February 17, 2014 at 4:57 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

Quote:If such a mechanism is possible, and given that bronze-age man would have had to obtain something on which to base his early belief... and the lack of any such something nowadays... would it not seem plausible to you that such beliefs are all man-made?

Man-made to a certain extent the human imagination was a factor though you won't see any societies or cultures of atheists in all of history that seems to be something that has to be entirely imposed and doesn't come naturally.

Oh, I wouldn't be so bold...
South american indians were godless when the europeans came by.. as far as the europeans could see, at least.
And the Buddhists are sort of considered atheists.... with that all pervasive requirement for life after the body shuts down.

(February 17, 2014 at 4:37 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Tell me, what would be the main piece of evidence that convinces you that god exists?

Freewill and moral arguments are what I would find to be one of the main points as I believe there will have to be source for that and you won't get this from natural physics and biology. Other arguments include the teleological argument which I find to be compelling as well, particularly if you realize that the universe is one great mathematical framework of precise balance. The cosmos itself and everything within it seems to wok together as a complete whole in bringing about the eventual fruition of life and intelligence so that's a strong point there. The message of the Bible particularly NT but also the OT if you look is essentially a God of the oppressed and poor which I believe to be on firm moral ground there, a lot of emphasis good works and charity and so forth. Christianity seems to be the religion with the fewest man made religious laws and customs and so forth which to my mind makes it the most legit of the claimed revelations. Jesus to me seems like a perfectly good embodiment of God and the good I see as being within humanity as a whole regardless of class, nationality and race.

Also I believe there is a subjective relational element regarding humanity and God that I experience and is possible for all humans to experience. A few other points include the reverence of the natural world as a creation of God rather than an evil illusion of the maya or whatever it is they tend to believe in the Eastern religions. You have physical scientifically understandable rational universe and a transcendent God beyond it who created and sustains it and his creatures. There's a lot of other stuff as well but these would cover the the core of it.

So I have all these reasons to believe in God in the Christian sense which as you can see outweigh your reasoning for atheism which states you have to scientifically prove something as a fact before you can believe it. We can be clear that you can't scientifically prove God as it has to be a faith based, there's nothing you can do about that. But as long as all the rational reasons, evidence and arguments are there then it's a reasoned faith which ought to overpower the skeptical position unless you're really seriously dead-set against it. At which point it may as well be a faith but one without much of a foundation. You say "I don't think that's true imo" and then that's kind of it.

(February 17, 2014 at 6:19 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote:

(February 17, 2014 at 4:37 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Tell me, what would be the main piece of evidence that convinces you that god exists?

Freewill and moral arguments are what I would find to be one of the main points as I believe there will have to be source for that and you won't get this from natural physics and biology. Other arguments include the teleological argument which I find to be compelling as well, particularly if you realize that the universe is one great mathematical framework of precise balance. The cosmos itself and everything within it seems to wok together as a complete whole in bringing about the eventual fruition of life and intelligence so that's a strong point there. The message of the Bible particularly NT but also the OT if you look is essentially a God of the oppressed and poor which I believe to be on firm moral ground there, a lot of emphasis good works and charity and so forth. Christianity seems to be the religion with the fewest man made religious laws and customs and so forth which to my mind makes it the most legit of the claimed revelations. Jesus to me seems like a perfectly good embodiment of God and the good I see as being within humanity as a whole regardless of class, nationality and race.

Also I believe there is a subjective relational element regarding humanity and God that I experience and is possible for all humans to experience. A few other points include the reverence of the natural world as a creation of God rather than an evil illusion of the maya or whatever it is they tend to believe in the Eastern religions. You have physical scientifically understandable rational universe and a transcendent God beyond it who created and sustains it and his creatures. There's a lot of other stuff as well but these would cover the the core of it.

So I have all these reasons to believe in God in the Christian sense which as you can see outweigh your reasoning for atheism which states you have to scientifically prove something as a fact before you can believe it. We can be clear that you can't scientifically prove God as it has to be a faith based, there's nothing you can do about that. But as long as all the rational reasons, evidence and arguments are there then it's a reasoned faith which ought to overpower the skeptical position unless you're really seriously dead-set against it. At which point it may as well be a faith but one without much of a foundation. You say "I don't think that's true imo" and then that's kind of it.

No evidence.. thats ok.. but I dont think u did ur homework on religions.. I think u pick Christianity because its comfortable not logical

(February 17, 2014 at 4:40 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote:

(February 17, 2014 at 4:37 pm)Stimbo Wrote: We must give ourselves in to Christ - or else what?

Oh great, now we're going to get the turn or burn argument again.

You did that Stimbo. It's on you.

Don't blame that shit on Stimbo, yo! We all know god started it and he's gonna end it. By burning sinners in hell.