(February 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: A perfectly just directive cannot logically be unjust.

Yes, of course, and if the directives are unjust (which I think killing children is, though I know that call is above your pay-grade), then logically the director (in this case the Christian God(s)--Father, Son, and Ghost--is/are not perfect.

(February 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: A perfectly just directive cannot logically be unjust.

How do you know that the Christian god is a perfect judge, making perfect directives?

(February 25, 2014 at 8:41 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(February 25, 2014 at 8:18 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: A perfectly just directive cannot logically be unjust.

How do you know that the Christian god is a perfect judge, making perfect directives?

It logically follows his other attributes

But that's another story for another day. Goodnight children! Sweet dreams

(February 25, 2014 at 9:13 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(February 25, 2014 at 8:41 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: How do you know that the Christian god is a perfect judge, making perfect directives?

It logically follows his other attributes

But that's another story for another day. Goodnight children! Sweet dreams

Yes, just not his actions.

(February 25, 2014 at 7:28 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:

(February 25, 2014 at 7:18 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I'd like an explanation for your claim that killing children is justifiable.
Go.

A perfect judge can make that call.

'Might makes right' is perfect justice, if you are an animal or a Christian. It's a subtle distinction, I know.

(February 25, 2014 at 9:57 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Yes, just not his actions in my fantasies.

Fixed that for you

(February 26, 2014 at 3:43 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(February 25, 2014 at 9:57 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Yes, just not his actions in my fantasies.

Fixed that for you

Now you just have to go through and fix the bible to match the quote you just "fixed"

(February 25, 2014 at 4:20 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: I recently had a conversation with a Christian over the atrocious morality attributed to God in the Bible. He who told me: "Let me get something straight. I wouldn't kill anybody if I felt the inkling that maybe God wants me to kill them. That's crazy. If I literally saw God and he audibly spoke to me and proved it was him. I'd be crazy not to do what he said." While I commend his efforts as a Christian seeking to live consistently with biblical morality, I had to point out the sickening truth to this confused soul: "So you would murder someone if you thought god genuinely told you to? Well guess what? So do a LOT of people who ACTUALLY DO murder people because they think God told them."

Given that Christians don't actually believe murder is itself wrong (just read the Bible-we're all sinners deserving of death and God is entitled to instruct people to kill others) but only that whatever God tells them is wrong is actually wrong, my question is... Would you, like this other lost Christian, murder if you thought God was instructing you to do so? Would you be a "hero of faith," like Jephthah who murdered his own daughter out of commitment to the Lord? Or would you, as I have to believe I would, face God's wrath and stand up for the principle that human life is valuable and to be appreciated, and disobey God?

Earlier this month a guy in Nigeria padlocked his four year-old son's jaw closed and tortured him to death. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...geria.html

The story doesn't give the guy's religion but since both the Bible and the Koran tell their followers to kill witches it really doesn't matter.

The guy says that his son was a "child of evil" who had caused him a long period of bad luck. So he did as his favorite deity said and killed the alleged witch.

The bottom line is that Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales are not the best moral guides to use in the 21st Century. It's time to toss those imaginary deities into the trash can along with all of the other thousands of dead gods and stop believing in dangerous superstitions.

(February 26, 2014 at 3:48 am)Esquilax Wrote: Now you just have to go through and fix the bible to match the quote you just "fixed"

No one has substantiated any objection successfully, yet you, so adamant that we shouldn't judge without empirical data, are willing to make an exception in this instance.

(February 26, 2014 at 4:31 am)fr0d0 Wrote: No one has substantiated any objection successfully, yet you, so adamant that we shouldn't judge without empirical data, are willing to make an exception in this instance.

Can a guy not assess the actions of a fictional character, now?

The point is that the christian god's actions are laid out in the bible, and that many of those actions are demonstrably immoral. In order for you to find him good, therefore, you must either be ignoring those actions, willfully disregarding them, or employing some form of special exemption in order to maintain your claim that god, as described in the only source you have for his existence, is morally good.

If it's the latterest case, jeez, that's close to moral relativism.