(March 15, 2014 at 3:29 pm)shep Wrote: still doesn't negate the fact you tout a violent, genocidal, barbaic, masochistic and suicidal diety disciplus.

Jesus was neither violent, genocidal, barbaric, masochistic or suicidal.

If you think He was then fine. I lift up the name of Jesus and magnify Him whenever I get the chance because of all that He has done for me in my life.

(March 15, 2014 at 2:59 pm)discipulus Wrote: Because there is no other name under heaven given unto men by which a man can be saved other than the name of Jesus Christ.

Let's gloss over the bare assertions you just made, since we haven't established the existence of Heaven nor do we know that God gave us Jesus. And I won't go into the special pleading of your religion over others, past and present. I'll take your statement at face value.

Why, even if this were true, does this make any difference?

A unique work of fiction is still fiction. Originality doesn't prove that the story is true.

Jesus touted the idea of eternal suffering for those who did not believe in him. His religion was that of an infinite punishment for a finite crime, which is immeasurably more horrible than the crimes of the god of the OT.

(March 15, 2014 at 3:39 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(March 15, 2014 at 2:59 pm)discipulus Wrote: Because there is no other name under heaven given unto men by which a man can be saved other than the name of Jesus Christ.

Let's gloss over the bare assertions you just made, since we haven't established the existence of Heaven nor do we know that God gave us Jesus. And I won't go into the special pleading of your religion over others, past and present. I'll take your statement at face value.

Why, even if this were true, does this make any difference?

A unique work of fiction is still fiction. Originality doesn't prove that the story is true.

That will be for you to decide.

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(March 15, 2014 at 3:39 pm)Bad Writer Wrote: Jesus touted the idea of eternal suffering for those who did not believe in him. His religion was that of an infinite punishment for a finite crime, which is immeasurably more horrible than the crimes of the god of the OT.

So you say. Some may agree with you.

In the end if metaphysical naturalism is true, you and I cease to exist when we die.

If I am right, and you persist in your obstinate refusal to accept Christ, then you will be eternally separated from God (hell). The reality will be far worse than what words in a book can convey, literal fire or not.

(March 15, 2014 at 3:10 pm)discipulus Wrote: ......

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(March 15, 2014 at 2:57 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Oh, I do discern people's character by both things...all of their actions. I'm no better than the next person, but I try to live my life in doing well by and for others. That said, I do believe and know good people who think that their good deeds are only accomplished through their faith beliefs. I've asked one of my Christian friends recently...so if you stopped believing in Jesus as your Savior, you would cease to do good things?

*deer in headlights look* Then...'No, dee, I don't think THAT.'

So, why assume that people aren't inherently good? Why assume they are inherently bad, and in need of a Leader? A Messiah? And that without that Messiah, they'd live lives of chaos and destruction?

That's more of what I'm saying. That's why what you're driving at discipulus, is really little more than a house of cards.

Have you not looked at the news recently? Have you not picked up a newspaper?

Have you not observed little children on a playground? How they need not be taught how to be selfish and little bullies? How they have to be taught continuously what it is to share and be kind?

People are not inherently good, but are inherently selfish, self-centered, and egotistical. The behavior of little children demonstrates this. Not to mention the millions of evils committed in the world everyday by adults against adults and against children.

Would you like me to send you some videos of people having their heads cut off while being video-tapped because they had told police of certain activities of drug dealers, or videos of men stabbing and shooting their ex-wives because of hatred, jealousy and bitterness?

I have been in the military Deidre, I have seen how people treat one another, from the east to the west have I traveled, and I can promise you that everywhere I have gone, the story is the same. The evil that men are capable of, if you were to witness it first hand, would cause you to to be forever rid of the naive idea that men are inherently good.

You are living in utter denial if you sit there and think people are "inherently good".

That is about the farthest thing from the truth that I know of.

I do believe all people are inherently altruistic, but are capable of doing selfish deeds. See, what's funny about this, is as a Christian you should be viewing the same. You have labeled PEOPLE here as bitter, and such...but that isn't what Jesus taught his followers to do. But, I digress.

I don't disbelieve that Jesus, 'a' man, may have existed at some point in history. I don't believe he was Divine. If he existed, the story in the NT illustrates him as a rejector of religion. He didn't like how the Pharisees 'worshipped' their Deity, and their rules and regulations that caused them to see themselves as elite, and the rest of the population, as peasants.

Many years after he died, the Bible was complied. How do you know that the story of Jesus being divine, and dying for sins, etc wasn't an add on, as to CREATE a religion?

Jesus was against religion, why on earth would he want you to worship him, and follow a religion that worships him? If he was executed at all, it was due to the fact that he went against religion. That's as far as any 'real' story probably goes, as it relates to Jesus. The virgin mary, and saving us from sin...I think, was a manmade invention as to create a religion to control. There is no proof to support that Jesus was who you say he is. Many historians merely believe that he could have existed.

That's what I believe, since we're ont the topic of Jesus.

(March 15, 2014 at 3:57 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(March 15, 2014 at 3:10 pm)discipulus Wrote: ......

---

Have you not looked at the news recently? Have you not picked up a newspaper?

Have you not observed little children on a playground? How they need not be taught how to be selfish and little bullies? How they have to be taught continuously what it is to share and be kind?

People are not inherently good, but are inherently selfish, self-centered, and egotistical. The behavior of little children demonstrates this. Not to mention the millions of evils committed in the world everyday by adults against adults and against children.

Would you like me to send you some videos of people having their heads cut off while being video-tapped because they had told police of certain activities of drug dealers, or videos of men stabbing and shooting their ex-wives because of hatred, jealousy and bitterness?

I have been in the military Deidre, I have seen how people treat one another, from the east to the west have I traveled, and I can promise you that everywhere I have gone, the story is the same. The evil that men are capable of, if you were to witness it first hand, would cause you to to be forever rid of the naive idea that men are inherently good.

You are living in utter denial if you sit there and think people are "inherently good".

That is about the farthest thing from the truth that I know of.

I do believe all people are inherently altruistic, but are capable of doing selfish deeds. See, what's funny about this, is as a Christian you should be viewing the same. You have labeled PEOPLE here as bitter, and such...but that isn't what Jesus taught his followers to do. But, I digress.

I don't disbelieve that Jesus, 'a' man, may have existed at some point in history. I don't believe he was Divine. If he existed, the story in the NT illustrates him as a rejector of religion. He didn't like how the Pharisees 'worshipped' their Deity, and their rules and regulations that caused them to see themselves as elite, and the rest of the population, as peasants.

Many years after he died, the Bible was complied. How do you know that the story of Jesus being divine, and dying for sins, etc wasn't an add on, as to CREATE a religion?

Jesus was against religion, why on earth would he want you to worship him, and follow a religion that worships him? If he was executed at all, it was due to the fact that he went against religion. That's as far as any 'real' story probably goes, as it relates to Jesus. The virgin mary, and saving us from sin...I think, was a manmade invention as to create a religion to control. There is no proof to support that Jesus was who you say he is. Many historians merely believe that he could have existed.

That's what I believe, since we're ont the topic of Jesus.

Preach it Sis! Jesus would have loved you!

(March 15, 2014 at 3:50 pm)discipulus Wrote: That will be for you to decide.

I always know when I've won an exchange with you when you ignore the question and either change the subject or run away to the "well, you and I just see it differently and that is fine" passive-aggressive line of defense.

(March 15, 2014 at 4:07 pm)Thunder Cunt Wrote:

(March 15, 2014 at 3:57 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I do believe all people are inherently altruistic, but are capable of doing selfish deeds. See, what's funny about this, is as a Christian you should be viewing the same. You have labeled PEOPLE here as bitter, and such...but that isn't what Jesus taught his followers to do. But, I digress.

I don't disbelieve that Jesus, 'a' man, may have existed at some point in history. I don't believe he was Divine. If he existed, the story in the NT illustrates him as a rejector of religion. He didn't like how the Pharisees 'worshipped' their Deity, and their rules and regulations that caused them to see themselves as elite, and the rest of the population, as peasants.

Many years after he died, the Bible was complied. How do you know that the story of Jesus being divine, and dying for sins, etc wasn't an add on, as to CREATE a religion?

Jesus was against religion, why on earth would he want you to worship him, and follow a religion that worships him? If he was executed at all, it was due to the fact that he went against religion. That's as far as any 'real' story probably goes, as it relates to Jesus. The virgin mary, and saving us from sin...I think, was a manmade invention as to create a religion to control. There is no proof to support that Jesus was who you say he is. Many historians merely believe that he could have existed.

That's what I believe, since we're ont the topic of Jesus.

Preach it Sis! Jesus would have loved you!

I wonder about you, Thunder Cunt.

(March 15, 2014 at 4:16 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(March 15, 2014 at 4:07 pm)Thunder Cunt Wrote: Preach it Sis! Jesus would have loved you!

I wonder about you, Thunder Cunt.

He wouldn't be appreciative of what I'd have 2 say 2 his Mamma!

(March 15, 2014 at 3:50 pm)discipulus Wrote: So you say.

So Jesus said. This isn't about me.

discipulus Wrote:In the end if metaphysical naturalism is true, you and I cease to exist when we die.

What the fuck are you on about? 'Metaphysical naturalism'? You can't just string words together and expect us to overlook this blatant oxymoron. Nothing about naturalism is metaphysical, as the idea of naturalism claims that all things have a natural explanation, even those things which at first seem to be supernatural or metaphysical (i.e. currently beyond our comprehension).

The concept of death, as far as we know, has no metaphysical qualities. We observe death all the time, and, quite naturally, the deceased remains dead.

discipulus Wrote:If I am right, and you persist in your obstinate refusal to accept Christ, then you will be eternally separated from God (hell).

IF. Bare assertions aren't worth anyone's time. Why don't you stop living on an "if" statement and start investigating reality for once? Lean upon that which can be observed, and you'll learn that my refusal isn't as obstinate as you once thought it was.

discipulus Wrote:The reality will be far worse than what words in a book can convey, literal fire or not.

And you know this...how? Because Jesus said so? So you agree that his concept of an infinite punishment for so finite a crime is moral? That's it's not reprehensible? How can you justify your god's actions? Are you simply scared that he might be right, that if you so much as turn your back for a moment that he'll forsake you and send you to this eternal torment? Is that what this is all about?

Look, I understand if you're scared of hell. Say that, but don't threaten others with your own perceived hellish imaginings. If you want us to take you seriously, the you need to seriously bring some evidence to the table that 1) your god is real 2) there's a heaven and hell 3) there's such a thing as sin 4) Jesus died for said sins 5) his sacrifice saves souls from going to hell. As you can see, starting with the whole Hellfire and Brimstone routine doesn't faze us because you haven't even fulfilled step 1.