(March 15, 2014 at 9:03 pm)KichigaiNeko Wrote: I find it strange that xtianity complains that their beliefs are mocked yet were quite happy to do the same to those of the pagan religions and any others currently in the world today.
IF this god is doing just fine then why does he need money and a whole hierarchy to support him?
I do not mock people's beliefs so what you wrote does not apply to me. Nor does it apply to those who do not mock the beliefs of others.
Tithing is the process by which members of a church give money, time, service etc. etc. so that the church's bills can be paid and other projects can be undertaken.
God does not need our money. God expects us however to be responsible for taking care of our debts and facilitating the growth of the Church which is the body of true believers throughout the world.
(March 16, 2014 at 8:57 am)xpastor Wrote: (March 15, 2014 at 9:50 am)discipulus Wrote: You do not need evidence to convince you that you should live a life of self-denial and self-sacrifice. A life of love and kindness and humility. A life wherein you always are giving and never expecting anything in return. A life wherein you do good to them who spitefully use you, always endeavoring to live at peace with your fellow man despite what his views may be.
You do not need proof in order to know that that is the right way to live.
Yes, I do.
Love and kindness. Fine. The parable of the Good Samaritan is a wonderful teaching.
Tolerance—endeavoring to live at peace with your fellow man despite what his views may be—is also a great ideal, but it's not something that came out of Christianity and still less out of the Old Testament with its barbaric laws and God-mandated genocides.
Endless self-denial and self-sacrifice. Turning the other cheek without protest. Bullshit. That's a very unhealthy psychological state which will eventually result in an emotional breakdown. And frankly I doubt that you practice it nearly as much as you preach it. As an ex-pastor I am rather familiar with Christian behavior.
BTW, Jesus and Paul also thought celibacy was a great idea. I don't. Do you?
I endeavor to live a life in conformity to that of Christ.
Some Christians do not. This is not in dispute.
Thus far in my walk, I have only been made stronger and edified in numerous ways as a result of denying the desires of my flesh and living a life in the service of others. It has been denonstrated through research that those who volunteer in the service of others on a regular basis are more healthy and happier than those who do not.
When I compare my former life of drunkeness, drug abuse, chasing women, selfishness, and self-centeredness with my life now, the difference is as wide as the sea.
In my life is the saying fulfilled: "I have come that they might have life and have it more abundantly."
Celibacy if used to denote not marrying, is a blessed gift for them who have been called to it by their Lord.
All Christians are to be celibate in the sense of abstaining from sexual intercourse outside the bounds of marriage.
My girlfriend and I are celibate. We have moments of fleshly weakness no doubt, but our committment to honor God has brought us closer together and made our bond stronger for we are partners in the endeavor together. We receive strength every time we resist temptation and are living proof that through Christ we can do all things. Are we perfect? By no means, and we have given in at times. However the few moments of pleasure we experince are nothing when compared with the peace and joy of being in the will of God.
(March 15, 2014 at 9:42 pm)Zen Badger Wrote: (March 15, 2014 at 9:50 am)discipulus Wrote: You do not need evidence to convince you that you should live a life of self-denial and self-sacrifice. A life of love and kindness and humility. A life wherein you always are giving and never expecting anything in return. A life wherein you do good to them who spitefully use you, always endeavoring to live at peace with your fellow man despite what his views may be.
You do not need proof in order to know that that is the right way to live.
How about you convince your fellow Christians of that before you talk to us.
You too seem to find reason to reject Christianity based on the lifestyle's of them that do not practice its precepts.
This you are not justified in doing.
(March 15, 2014 at 10:47 pm)shep Wrote: Quote:discipulus Wrote: You do not need evidence to convince you that you should live a life of self-denial and self-sacrifice. A life of love and kindness and humility. A life wherein you always are giving and never expecting anything in return. A life wherein you do good to them who spitefully use you, always endeavoring to live at peace with your fellow man despite what his views may be.
You do not need proof in order to know that that is the right way to live.
you say that in one breath, and in the next you self righteously roll out the eternal torture card. if you think you are a peaceful, loving and kind person, you are severely deluded, or a liar. or both. something tells me its the latter.
When I say that if you reject Christ and die in this state that you will not be with Him in eternity, this is what hell is, i.e. existing apart from the immediate presence of God, then it seems to me you should understand that this is something that the despiser of Christ would want.
If a person mocks and spits on Christ as vile it is clear that spending an eternity with Him would be the last thing that this person would want! That would be hell for such a one.
The person who rejects Christ gets what they want, they are finally rid of Him and all that He stands for. There is no love in hell, there is nothing good there. God's immediate presence will never be there to bother you. I will not be there, nor will anyone else be there to continually "harass" you. You will be free to bask in all the hate and bitterness and self-righteousness that you want and the very thought that you are there by your own choice will cause you to rage and weep for very grief.
God gives everyone exactly what they want. He loves you too much to force you to be with Him.
(March 15, 2014 at 11:06 pm)shep Wrote: (March 15, 2014 at 12:05 pm)discipulus Wrote: I do not agree with their lifestyle but I love them and respect them and treat them the way i would want to be treated.
and what, prey tell, do you mean by lifestyle here? i'm gay myself and find your post baffling. by lifestyle, you mean what I eat? what films I watch? how i treat my body? what job i have? how are any of those things any different from someone who is heterosexual, bi or transgender?
I do not agree with your lifestyle in the sense that you a man have sexual intercourse with another man and then think this is something that you need to tell people as if it is something they need to know.
I have a very good friend of mine who is gay. Several years ago I was attracted to this man and came to have a strong, almost overwhelming desire to have sex with him. However, I began really pondering about this and finally came to the conclusion that if I did indeed love this man that I would express this love in a self denying self sacrificing way instead of a selfish, pleasure seeking, lustful way.
Over time, the overwhelming urge to have anal sex with him went away as I began truly loving him and denying my own fleshly passions. To this day he and I are good friends and we both have gone on to do what it is we have decided to do.
Having experienced the desire myself, I can speak as one who can relate.
I loved him and still do. But that does not give me a reason to have sex with him. Having been faithful first and foremost to God, I look back and can see the benefits of obedience.
He personally confided in me about friends of his who had died from AIDS and about the things he had suffered from due to the way he was living. So I speak what I do in love, not prejudice. I speak as one who can relate.
When I hang out with my friends I do not talk to them at all about their sexual orientation. I love them and want them to feel comfortable around me and they do. Many times in fact, they have shared with me their feelings and stuff and have asked me for advice without me even saying anything to them.
Christ would not condemn the homosexual in the same manner that some Christians do. He would not despise them or look down on them. He would love them and show them compassion and let all of the ones who did condemn know that they are not without sin. The account of the woman caught in adultery is one of my favorite passages. This is how my Lord would respond to such people.
(March 16, 2014 at 1:11 am)Faith No More Wrote: (March 15, 2014 at 7:07 pm)discipulus Wrote: According to Christ, even thinking the thought makes you a transgressor.
Ah, yes, good ol' Christian morality where thoughtcrime is every bit as heinous as committing actual evil deeds. It's a moral system that advocates punishing people for instinctual thoughts regardless of whether or not they act upon them, and looking at someone with desire is treated no differently than bending them over and having your way with them.
That definitely belongs in this thread.
It advocates punishing people for instinctual thoughts?
That is not correct.
(March 16, 2014 at 3:12 am)Zen Badger Wrote: (March 16, 2014 at 1:11 am)Faith No More Wrote: Ah, yes, good ol' Christian morality where thoughtcrime is every bit as heinous as committing actual evil deeds. It's a moral system that advocates punishing people for instinctual thoughts regardless of whether or not they act upon them, and looking at someone with desire is treated no differently than bending them over and having your way with them.
That definitely belongs in this thread.
And what value is virtue if you are not tempted to sin?
But according to jc just having sinful thoughts is enough to condemn you to hell.
Being tempted is not necessarily a sin.
Acting on the temptation in such a manner that it causes you to sin is a sin.
And yes, lusting after a person in your heart is the same in God's sight as if you had done it actually. God's standards of righteousness are not our standards and rightfully so.
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