Even though I barely understand anything you intellectuals type, I will say that i agree that the bible is a primitive pos. The earth is flat, women are retarded and should only be fucked and taught to clean, homos/bad, etc. It doesn't take much to see that the writers of the bible hated themselves for things they incorrectly percieved to be a god's message. they couldn't control what they assumed was wrong, so they went, "Fuck you.. fuck that.. fuck this.. oh, and fuck that, too." Life is fucking retarded with christinsanity. They were hatefully self-centered. That, my friends, is how christinsanity was made. And that is how christinsanity is today.

(March 16, 2014 at 1:10 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(March 16, 2014 at 12:56 pm)xpastor Wrote: Bishop Spong suggests that the apostle Paul was a repressed homosexual and that is why he condemned it.

I've read this, as well. The ''Apostle Paul,'' talks about how he had a chronic thorn in his side, yet he was 'grateful to God' for it, as in his weakness, he would boast of God's strength. I happen to think as well that the ''thorn'' was his realization that he was a homosexual, and didn't feel comfortable coming out with it. I also believe he was a misogynist...he seemed to have a disdain for women, which is why he taught people (men) to treat them like second class citizens.

Christians either don't wish to see this as it is, or just have made excuses as to not cringe when they read these passages. Or they themselves have the same issues, and feel that the Bible gives them a place of 'acceptance.'

To be fair to Paul one has to realize that only 7 of the 13 epistles attributed to him are actually his writing; the other 6 are forgeries. Besides that, the text of his authentic epistles has been corrupted in some places.

The point of being aware of the forgeries is that though the real Paul certainly doesn't recognize women as the equals of men, for his era he is pretty good. More than once he speaks of women he knows with affection. In one letter he says "in Christ there is neither male nor female." In another (1 Cor 11) he talks about women "prophesying in church" [i.e., preaching]. Many critical scholars think a passage 3 chapters later must be an addition by some scribe because it says a woman should be silent in church, a direct contradiction of his earlier words. The bit about women being silent in church is repeated in 1 Timothy, and modern critical scholars almost unanimously consider that whole epistle to be a forgery.

(March 16, 2014 at 4:17 pm)xpastor Wrote:

(March 16, 2014 at 1:10 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I've read this, as well. The ''Apostle Paul,'' talks about how he had a chronic thorn in his side, yet he was 'grateful to God' for it, as in his weakness, he would boast of God's strength. I happen to think as well that the ''thorn'' was his realization that he was a homosexual, and didn't feel comfortable coming out with it. I also believe he was a misogynist...he seemed to have a disdain for women, which is why he taught people (men) to treat them like second class citizens.

Christians either don't wish to see this as it is, or just have made excuses as to not cringe when they read these passages. Or they themselves have the same issues, and feel that the Bible gives them a place of 'acceptance.'

To be fair to Paul one has to realize that only 7 of the 13 epistles attributed to him are actually his writing; the other 6 are forgeries. Besides that, the text of his authentic epistles has been corrupted in some places.

The point of being aware of the forgeries is that though the real Paul certainly doesn't recognize women as the equals of men, for his era he is pretty good. More than once he speaks of women he knows with affection. In one letter he says "in Christ there is neither male nor female." In another (1 Cor 11) he talks about women "prophesying in church" [i.e., preaching]. Many critical scholars think a passage 3 chapters later must be an addition by some scribe because it says a woman should be silent in church, a direct contradiction of his earlier words. The bit about women being silent in church is repeated in 1 Timothy, and modern critical scholars almost unanimously consider that whole epistle to be a forgery.

The entire epistle of Timothy has been considered by scholars to be a forgery? Huh. Interesting.

(March 16, 2014 at 8:58 am)discipulus Wrote: When I say that if you reject Christ and die in this state that you will not be with Him in eternity, this is what hell is, i.e. existing apart from the immediate presence of God,

so you believe hell is simply separation from god? do you believe that people in hell suffer pain, are tortured and the like like this particular hell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL8Kl-8H9k8 (skip to 2.00)

I ask this because people find any idea of hell distressing.

Quote: then it seems to me you should understand that this is something that the despiser of Christ would want.

despise is a strong word. how do you come to the conclusion that people who lack a belief in the Christian God despise it?

Quote:If a person mocks and spits on Christ as vile it is clear that spending an eternity with Him would be the last thing that this person would want! That would be hell for such a one

some do not like the idea of your Christ - he commits murder, genocide, incites hatred and violence. can you not see why some people would object to that?

Quote:The person who rejects Christ gets what they want

how do you work that out?

Quote: There is no love in hell,there is nothing good there

https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...8217_n.jpg

this is my mother. she is an atheist. If your hell does exist I can assure you there will be at least one soul in there that proves you wrong

Quote:He loves you too much to force you to be with Him.

then why does he send people on recruiting and preaching missions?

Quote:I do not agree with your lifestyle in the sense that you a man have sexual intercourse with another man and then think this is something that you need to tell people as if it is something they need to know.

you have told people you are attracted to guys as well, so you are a hypocrite of the highest order.

Quote: I began really pondering about this and finally came to the conclusion that if I did indeed love this man that I would express this love in a self denying self sacrificing way instead of a selfish, pleasure seeking, lustful way.

how is being attracted to someone selfish?

Quote:Having experienced the desire myself, I can speak as one who can relate.

But what you deem "sinful" and "lustful" , others would describe as healthy and of there own choice. What gives you the right to dictate how others live there lives and the choices they make?

Quote:Christ would not condemn the homosexual in the same manner that some Christians do. He would not despise them or look down on them. He would love them and show them compassion and let all of the ones who did condemn know that they are not without sin. The account of the woman caught in adultery is one of my favorite passages. This is how my Lord would respond to such people.

All this shows is you cherry pick to suit your presuppositions.

Quote:You will be free to bask in all the hate and bitterness and self-righteousness that you want and the very thought that you are there by your own choice will cause you to rage and weep for very grief.

shove it up your arse.

(March 16, 2014 at 8:58 am)discipulus Wrote: You will be free to bask in all the hate and bitterness and self-righteousness that you want and the very thought that you are there by your own choice will cause you to rage and weep for very grief.

Oh gosh, discipulus. This is so sad, what you replied to shep here. How condescending. And don't say this is what you feel your 'duty' is as a Christian to 'warn' shep of. You are not in a position to condemn anyone to anywhere. As if you know there is a hell to begin with ...with certainty, and as if you know who will be there. I'm actually worried for YOU, discipulus.

(March 16, 2014 at 4:28 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: The entire epistle of Timothy has been considered by scholars to be a forgery? Huh. Interesting.

Along with 2 Timothy, Titus, 2 Thessalonians, Ephesians and Colossians. (Some scholars support the last two as authentic.) Hebrews does not specifically say that it is by Paul, but the last chapter appears to imply that, mentioning his associates like Timothy. The church added the title, "The Epistle of the Apostle Paul to the Hebrews" but it is certainly not by Paul. All the other epistles are NOT by the apostles whom they claim as authors: 1 & 2 Peter, James, Jude, and all 3 epistles by John. The 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John) are all anonymous along with Acts. The titles were added later by the church. That leaves Revelation, whose author claims to be "John from Patmos" (not the apostle John) so we can hardly say he is lying about having a very common name.

(March 16, 2014 at 4:52 pm)Deidre32 Wrote:

(March 16, 2014 at 8:58 am)discipulus Wrote: You will be free to bask in all the hate and bitterness and self-righteousness that you want and the very thought that you are there by your own choice will cause you to rage and weep for very grief.

Oh gosh, discipulus. This is so sad, what you replied to shep here. How condescending. And don't say this is what you feel your 'duty' is as a Christian to 'warn' shep of. You are not in a position to condemn anyone to anywhere. As if you know there is a hell to begin with ...with certainty, and as if you know who will be there. I'm actually worried for YOU, discipulus.

Personally, you can believe what you want to. The choice is yours.

If atheists are right, then when we die we cease to exist so there is no hell.

In addition, if atheists are right then all of our beliefs (including the belief in God or lack thereof) are simply the by-products of socio-biological processes taking place within our grey matter (brains).

So if the atheists are right, then my beliefs as well as their beliefs are determined not by choice, but by our genetic and physiological makeup. IOW, I believe what I believe because I am hard-wired in a particular way and atheists believe what they believe because they are hard-wired a particular way. Both them and I are simply by-products of natural processes acting on matter. We, like the maggot or slug exist to reproduce and when our life cycle is up, we die and become compost.

This is metaphysical naturalism.

If you all think that is something worth believing in then more power to you.

I will live by the law of love, you can live by whatever it is you choose. I will let my words and my actions speak for me.

How dare the Universe not treat ME special!!!

By the way, that's a very robust theory of consciousness you have there.

What the hell is the "law of love," what Captain Planet taught The Planeteers?

What a ridiculous Twinkie Defense of an argument. "I believe a bunch of irrational things because my brain is hard-wired to believe irrational things I doubt are true." What?

(March 16, 2014 at 6:12 pm)discipulus Wrote: In addition, if atheists are right then all of our beliefs (including the belief in God) are simply the by-products of socio-biological processes taking place within our grey matter (brains).

Except they aren't just beliefs, religion has an insanely powerful grip of control over society - a huge influence on peoples lifestyle (life sentences for being homosexual) to banning films (noah) yes they are beliefs but reality is shaped by those beliefs, look at the brutal path that religion has carved out in the last 200 years - this is why i treat every belief with skepticm, and i sure as heck don't believe anything just because it was written in a book.

Quote:I will live by the law of love,

You can keep repeating that until you are blue in the face, it won't make it any more true.