(November 21, 2008 at 12:44 am)infidel666 Wrote:

Quote:I tend to think that the militant Atheists have a hidden agenda that they themselves are not fully aware of.

unwitting minions of satan=lucifer=daystar

Satan doesn't equal lucifer, but lucifer does equal daystar in a way.

Lucifer is a Latin word that means "shinning one." It was applied to the King of Babylon. In more modern translations lucifer is translated as "morning star" or "daystar" because in certain seasons the morning or day star was the brightest of the stars just before the dawn. They were used figuratively to indicate that someone or something was going to herald a new day. The king of Babylon was the "daystar" because his kingdom took away God's kingdom on earth which heralded the new day of God not being represented on earth by a kingdom of men. The time of the nations this period of time was called and Jesus would end it upon his being made King of men in Jehovah God's Kingdom.

---

(November 21, 2008 at 1:12 am)chatpilot Wrote: I consider myself a die hard atheist but that is because I am pretty sure of my position that god does not exist.Based on all of the evidence that I have come across on my own and my own experiences in the ministry,I am convinced that god does not exist sufficient enough to make the issue an open and shut case for me.

What are your own experiences in the ministry?

(November 21, 2008 at 2:57 pm)Daystar Wrote:

(November 21, 2008 at 12:44 am)infidel666 Wrote:

Quote:I tend to think that the militant Atheists have a hidden agenda that they themselves are not fully aware of.

unwitting minions of satan=lucifer=daystar

Satan doesn't equal lucifer,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer says

Quote:Lucifer is a name frequently given to Satan in Christian belief. This usage stems from a particular interpretation, as a reference to a fallen angel, of a passage in the Bible (Isaiah 14:3-20) that speaks of someone who is given the name of "Day Star" or "Morning Star" (in Latin, Lucifer) as fallen from heaven. The same Latin word is used of the morning star in 2 Peter 1:19 and elsewhere with no relation to Satan. However, in many writings later than those of the Bible the Latin word has been used, without being translated as "Morning Star" and the like, as a proper name with which to designate Satan ... The Jewish Encyclopedia states that the Lucifer myth was transferred to Satan already in the pre-Christian century, citing in support of this view the Life of Adam and Eve and the Slavonic Book of Enoch[16], where Satan-Sataniel (sometimes identified with Samael) is described as having been one of the archangels. Because he contrived "to make his throne higher than the clouds over the earth and resemble 'My power' on high", Satan-Sataniel was hurled down, with his hosts of angels, and since then he has been flying in the air continually above the abyss.[12]

However, it was among Christian writers that the identification of "Lucifer" with Satan had its greatest fortune. Tertullian ("Contra Marrionem," v. 11, 17), Origen ("Ezekiel Opera," iii. 356), and others, identify Lucifer with Satan, who also is represented as being "cast down from heaven" (Revelation 12:7-10; cf. Luke 10:18).[12]

The Tyndale Bible Dictionary states that there are many who believe the expression "Lucifer" and the surrounding context in Isaiah 14 refer to Satan: they believe the similarities among Isaiah 14:12, Luke 10:18, and Revelation 12:7-10 warrant this conclusion. But it points out that the context of the Isaiah passage is about the accomplished defeat of the king of Babylon, while the New Testament passages speak of Satan.[11]

Bring it.

Bring the light.

O ye light bringer.

As Prometheus laid the flame of heaven upon the hand of man,

So bring ye the epiphanic blaze of God's e'er perfect plan.

Daystar I used to be a fundamental Pentecostal evangelist.I once believed in the Holy Spirit,and the various gifts associated with it.I was involved in what was mainly considered a deliverance ministry which dealt primarily with the expulsion of demons from so called possessed people.I believed that I was infused with the power of the Holy Ghost and people often testified to having been healed or delivered through my ministry.

When I left the church and the ministry the first thing I did was to try and debunk many of the experiences I had in the ministry from faith healing,casting out of demons,speaking in tongues,prophesying,and exercising all the gifts of the spirit at one time or another throughout my ministry.After having left the church I read alot of books on psychology,psychiatry,comparative religion and biblical criticism just to mention a few.In the end I was able to find explanations that were satisfactory to myself so much so that I renounced religion andmy belief in God forever.Honestly nothing could make me go back I feel uncomfortable in a church and find the bible to be an insult to my intelligence due to it's many inconsistencies and self contradictions.

Chatpiolt, I am very interested to read that you used to be a pentecostal evangelist. My own experiences of pentecostal 'things' made me distrustful of Churches. I remember once going to a gathering at Stoneleigh and there must have been a couple of thousand people in this barn all 'speaking in tongues'. The noise was deafening and I thought 'this must be what a mad house feels like'. I've been to services where they make people fall back etc, and I was probably the only one who didn't fall back. You will be familiar with the Toronto Blessing stuff. Upon seeing it in action, I realised it wasn't the Holy Spirit, as all the stuff that was manifesting can be reproduced quite easily by people like Derren Brown. If it had really been the Holy Spirit, then I would have expected amputees to be healed, or the dead to be raised. I concluded that any church that manifests these blatantly unholy things, aint really Christian. I don't go to any Church mainly because of things like this but I haven't thrown the baby out with the bath water just yet.....

CoxRox I agree I experienced the so called Holy Ghost for myself and found that alot of it is influencing in masse and inadvertent hypnosis.I have yet to see a dead man come back to life or an amputee be healed and have his missing limb restored.The reason I finally got rid of god was because I had no use for him.After alot of studies of the origins of Christianity and alot of the actual sources they used to found that religion I realized it was nothing more than mere mythology.In my view now any religion that requires the worship of a deity is false.The God of the bible is a cruel and manipulative murdering dictator and honestly I would prefer death over subjugation any day.

What we both experienced was without a doubt 'natural', and in no way supernatural. I have never had 'proof' of the supernatural. I relate to much of what you say.

Just found a brilliant skit from a bunch of actors about prop 8... featuring Jack Black as Jesus Christ and John C Reilly as an anti-gay man singing about sodomy. Watch it here.

(December 3, 2008 at 5:09 pm)lukec Wrote: Just found a brilliant skit from a bunch of actors about prop 8... featuring Jack Black as Jesus Christ and John C Reilly as an anti-gay man singing about sodomy. Watch it here.

Ha ha! That is hilarious. LMFAO. Jack Black is awesome. That was genius.

(November 17, 2008 at 4:56 pm)Daystar Wrote: I don't understand why Xians feel like they have to enforce their religious beliefs on others. There is no scriptural support for it

2 Chronicles 15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

How about that one? For a dude who claims to have read the bible numerous times you seem to be selectively forgetful.

(December 15, 2008 at 11:04 am)Dotard Wrote:

(November 17, 2008 at 4:56 pm)Daystar Wrote: I don't understand why Xians feel like they have to enforce their religious beliefs on others. There is no scriptural support for it

2 Chronicles 15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

How about that one? For a dude who claims to have read the bible numerous times you seem to be selectively forgetful.

Christianity does not seem to expound this method of 'forcing your will over someone elses'. I do not read of Jesus going around telling people the good news and healing them against their will. So too the disciples didn't go out trying to force people to believe in Jesus. I can see where you are coming from in citing the above scripture, but Christians shouldn't be in the business of forcing their beliefs on anybody.