(April 1, 2014 at 9:38 pm)professor Wrote: You know Tb, you gotta lot of fight in you.......if only that was directed elsewhere.

There was a time in my life when I thought, I would have to go to hell with my friends,
it took a while for me to realize just how dumb that idea was.

Where should I direct it to? U were never going to hell.. the whole hell / heaven is ridiculous.

(April 1, 2014 at 6:22 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: As God is omniscient, then there isn't a thing I can do to save myself. I'm not so constituted (apparently) to suddenly convert to any one faith - God knows - and always has known - that I will never convert, never repent, never be saved. Since God created everything, he must also have created the choices I made that made me what I am.

Where is the free will?

So, if you were saying this to me in real life, and then all of a sudden I slapped you in the face, then you can't really hold me responsible for doing that, since you think that God's foreknowledge would imply that I have no free will.

Boru: "If God already knows everything that I'm going to do, and He created me, then where is the free will? Isn't everything I do only God's fault?
Rayaan: "Yes, God knows everything that I'm going to do ... BUT ..."
Boru: "But what?"
Rayaan: *slaps Boru*
Boru: "Why the fuck did you slap me?! I just asked you an honest question!"
Rayaan: "Hey, don't blame me, man. It was already pre-destined by God that I was going to slap you. So, sadly, I had no control over this."

Do you think that's a logical excuse for my action? Would you be happy with that answer? Of course not because deep down, you know that it was my decision and that's why you became angry at me ...

Yet when you yourself do something bad, you expect to be free from getting any blame and punishment simply because of God's foreknowledge of it?

That is a double standard.

(April 1, 2014 at 8:22 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Your freedom is to reject goodness.

Depending on what "goodness" encompasses, that would be an eminently reasonable approach and a reasonable offer from god.

This is why most Arminians are weak in theology.

If God is omniscient and omnipotent, then there cannot be free will.

If there is free will, then God is subjugated to our choices and whims which takes away His omnipotence.

Even if He knows our choices that we are going to make and predestines based on those choices; this is still subjugating God to our choices and free will - even more so because we are forcing God to plan the future based on our future actions.

Free will simply cannot co-exist with a being that is omniscient and omnipotent.

Here is a point of difference between me and WCL. God knows all things which are capable of being known. (All knowing) The future does not yet exist. That which does not exist cannot be known. Therefore future choices of free will do not exist. Freewill is compatible with an all knowing God.

(April 3, 2014 at 11:10 am)ChadWooters Wrote: Here is a point of difference between me and WCL. God knows all things which are capable of being known. (All knowing) The future does not yet exist. That which does not exist cannot be known. Therefore future choices of free will do not exist. Freewill is compatible with an all knowing God.

Very true. But free will is not compatible with an all powerful God who is also all knowing.

See my post a few up. I explained in there.

(April 3, 2014 at 10:55 am)Upside Down Dog Wrote: This is why most Arminians are weak in theology.

If God is omniscient and omnipotent, then there cannot be free will.

If there is free will, then God is subjugated to our choices and whims which takes away His omnipotence.

Even if He knows our choices that we are going to make and predestines based on those choices; this is still subjugating God to our choices and free will - even more so because we are forcing God to plan the future based on our future actions.

Free will simply cannot co-exist with a being that is omniscient and omnipotent.

That's nonsense. You're saying that if God knows all future events and had moulded them at his will, then because he already set those events he can't have free will.

You're another who conflates timeless with time bound. First God has to be timeless to set everything up, and then time bound to be confounded by his actions.

Here is a point of difference between me and WCL. God knows all things which are capable of being known. (All knowing) The future does not yet exist. That which does not exist cannot be known. Therefore future choices of free will do not exist. Freewill is compatible with an all knowing God.

I thought I'd traveled back in time then

Isn't God also timeless Chad? "I am".

(April 3, 2014 at 12:49 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: The future does not yet exist.

Is that not a point of contention within the field of physics and other sciences?