(April 4, 2014 at 9:20 am)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 4, 2014 at 3:38 am)Alex K Wrote: And this folks is why I started my thread http://atheistforums.org/thread-25207.html

But hey I'll bite.

Rev, it is much more implausible for you God to "come from nothing" whatever that is supposed to mean, than a mere universe with a handful of physics laws. Having a deity doesn't make it more believable, its an additional assumption

See i don't believe He "came" from anything. He is the great "I AM" - no past, no future, He is and was never created. What the argument seems to be here is you are saying that the creation always was, and I am saying that the creature always was.

The argument is that you and other christians often claim that somehow, it is very unplausible for the universe to simply exists, but for god, that's somehow less of a philosophical conundrum, and therefore god. All we say is that it's the other way around it is no less plausible for a universe to simply exist than for your god, and there is evidence for the universe, but not for your god, so...

Is it possible Rev doesn't understand he's making a presuppositional knowledge claim requiring a lot more steps than <something can't come from nothing> :. <God exists>?

It's a semantic game cosmological argument proponents like to play. Within that "simple" belief:

<God exists>
<Everything has a cause>
<Except God, because:>
<God is my specific religion's god with attributes A-Z>
Including:
<God is eternal>
<God is Omnipotent>
<God is Omniscient>

Is the belief being substituted for "we don't know if the universe was caused or what caused it," and because of cultural awareness of the concept of these beliefs, <God must have done it> seems like a "simple" explanation.

When in fact, it relies on a ton of unstated premises with zero support, that can be backdoored into any ontological argument by a special pleading clause like "begins to exist" without believers batting an eyelash. They already accept <God exists> so to them it's a "common sense" conclusion.

(April 4, 2014 at 9:02 am)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 4, 2014 at 3:32 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Good thing then that nobody gives a shit about what you 'believe'.

Got nothing to say to my last point? Figures.

What point are you referring to? Was it this that you wrote?

"If your god is so powerful tell it to come here and defend itself instead if sending its pawn to do it for it. Either that, or wake up and realize that you're talking to yourself. Nobody is talking back to you."

Ok here is my response: If my God is so powerful, which I believe He is. Why can't He do as He wishes? If He chooses to use a weak, simple, sinful man such as myself, that amazes me that He would be gracious and merciful to do such a thing. If I am completely delusional, well, I have not been committed yet.

That's one of the points I wrote, yes. The other is that we don't want to hear what you're touting becuase it's a carbon copy of every other claim/belief that's been rebutted time and time again. Read; we don't want to hear about your beliefs. Or, rather, we don't want to hear you claim your beliefs as factually true when you have precisely 0% evidence to back it up aside fallacious arguments and proof by assertions (or beliefs).

And that you equate to being a de facto puppet to a 'god' that is supremely powerful to it being "'gracious and merciful' makes me hang my head in shame. Shame that you're willing to be a tool, a husk of a human being to be toyed with at will, and that in reality you're simply being a slave to your own imagination.

As always, with any delusion or addiction, the first step is admitting you have a problem. But you don't even realise that you do. Your selfishness and your ego drives you forward. "I'm right, you're wrong" with no consideration of the alternatives (or the outright rejection of evidenced based ideas). I hope wasting your entire, singular life for whatever version of god it is you worship is worth it. It's your right to do so, of course, but please don't bore us with the details of how great it feels. We don't care unless you've got something tangible to bring to the table.

(April 3, 2014 at 10:28 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:

(April 3, 2014 at 9:28 am)Tonus Wrote: Or anything else, for that matter, aside from apparently mistaking heartburn for "god."

No, no, no, it is the Lord that places the desire within me.

I'm just pointing out that you could cure "the Lord" with a Rolaids tablet.

(April 4, 2014 at 11:52 am)Tonus Wrote:

(April 3, 2014 at 10:28 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: No, no, no, it is the Lord that places the desire within me.

I'm just pointing out that you could cure "the Lord" with a Rolaids tablet.

Or an enema.

(April 4, 2014 at 12:02 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(April 4, 2014 at 11:52 am)Tonus Wrote: I'm just pointing out that you could cure "the Lord" with a Rolaids tablet.

Or an enema.

Or some ritalin...or would that make it worst

Repent before Easter and get 20% discount on your purgatory!(*)

(*)Eternal hellfire for certain groups and/or sins may still apply

(April 3, 2014 at 9:28 am)Tonus Wrote: Or anything else, for that matter, aside from apparently mistaking heartburn for "god."

"Many people think they have religion when they are troubled with dyspepsia."
-- Colonel Robert Green Ingersoll, "Liberty of Man, Woman and Child" (1877)

(April 6, 2014 at 4:08 am)Alex K Wrote: Repent before Easter and get 20% discount on your purgatory!(*)

(*)Eternal hellfire for certain groups and/or sins may still apply

Dear Sir,
I believe Jesus' work on the cross is complete and paid for all sins, no need for purgatory. Another blessing is no need for 20% God's gift, ITS FREE!

---

(April 6, 2014 at 4:02 am)Mothonis_Cathicgal Wrote:

(April 4, 2014 at 12:02 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Or an enema.

Or some ritalin...or would that make it worst

If believing in God is an illness, then I need to be in ICU.

(April 8, 2014 at 8:58 am)Revelation777 Wrote: Dear Sir,
I believe Jesus' work on the cross is complete and paid for all sins, no need for purgatory. Another blessing is no need for 20% God's gift, ITS FREE!

If this is true, and it's also true that god personifies love, and that god's love is unconditional, then I think we're all in good shape.