(April 7, 2014 at 11:43 am)tor Wrote:

(April 7, 2014 at 11:39 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I'm there already buddy

And you fail.

Hey, I wasn't doing anything! Ergo: I was doing nothing. Mission accomplished?

(April 7, 2014 at 11:51 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(April 7, 2014 at 11:43 am)tor Wrote: And you fail.

Hey, I wasn't doing anything! Ergo: I was doing nothing. Mission accomplished?

No no no.

(April 7, 2014 at 9:44 am)LostLocke Wrote: So, when this god created the universe, he created it from nothing?

You could say that, although "from nothing" isn't really necessary when you think about it.

(April 6, 2014 at 6:31 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(April 6, 2014 at 11:46 am)whateverist Wrote: Looks like pre-existing conditions all the way down to me.

Yes, but why do those pre-existing conditions pre-exist?

Why are you assuming the ontological necessity of the Principle of Sufficient Reason? :p

(April 7, 2014 at 2:09 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(April 7, 2014 at 9:44 am)LostLocke Wrote: So, when this god created the universe, he created it from nothing?

You could say that, although "from nothing" isn't really necessary when you think about it.

So god created universe from something?

I guess you're asking can this question result in people becoming religious?

It probably does in some ways.

But I don't know why since all religions must either believe god made the universe from a part of gods own self, from things he found lying around the universe which have always been there, or from nothing.

I mainly focus on Islam when I debate and I know for certain SO many muslims use the argument that something can't come from nothing which is laughable since the quran actually says god has the ability to make things just by saying the words "be" and made man while he was still nothing (whatever that means)

Quote:Muhsin Khan
Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

The point really is no matter which god you believe in you either believe god is the universe or he made the universe from nothing. Or you just believe stuff is there and god manipulated it.

(April 7, 2014 at 11:33 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I guess you're asking can this question result in people becoming religious?

It probably does in some ways.

But I don't know why since all religions must either believe god made the universe from a part of gods own self, from things he found lying around the universe which have always been there, or from nothing.

I mainly focus on Islam when I debate and I know for certain SO many muslims use the argument that something can't come from nothing which is laughable since the quran actually says god has the ability to make things just by saying the words "be" and made man while he was still nothing (whatever that means)

Quote:Muhsin Khan
Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

The point really is no matter which god you believe in you either believe god is the universe or he made the universe from nothing. Or you just believe stuff is there and god manipulated it.

Er, I'd say that the theist argument is that something can't naturally come from nothing, but we assume that the naturally is understood.

(April 8, 2014 at 7:01 am)alpha male Wrote: Er, I'd say that the theist argument is that something can't naturally come from nothing, but we assume that the naturally is understood.

But then how do you explain where god came from? Saying god always existed begs the question: why can't the universe and its prior conditions have always existed and cut out the middle man (god)? Positing a creator god just seems gratuitous and completely unhelpful in explaining anything.

Saying god did it is tantamount to saying you just don't know how a thing came about. Don't you xtians have a saying about god "working in strange and wonderful ways"? I still use the expression "gawd only knows" to indicate that the answer to a question eludes me. But I don't seriously mean that there is a genie somewhere who actually keeps track of all the answers to all the questions. That is just a weird idea.

(April 8, 2014 at 7:01 am)alpha male Wrote:

(April 7, 2014 at 11:33 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I guess you're asking can this question result in people becoming religious?

It probably does in some ways.

But I don't know why since all religions must either believe god made the universe from a part of gods own self, from things he found lying around the universe which have always been there, or from nothing.

I mainly focus on Islam when I debate and I know for certain SO many muslims use the argument that something can't come from nothing which is laughable since the quran actually says god has the ability to make things just by saying the words "be" and made man while he was still nothing (whatever that means)

The point really is no matter which god you believe in you either believe god is the universe or he made the universe from nothing. Or you just believe stuff is there and god manipulated it.

Er, I'd say that the theist argument is that something can't naturally come from nothing, but we assume that the naturally is understood.

Then you're settling for the supernatural explanation, same thing they do on the ancient aliens shows.

(April 8, 2014 at 7:01 am)alpha male Wrote:

(April 7, 2014 at 11:33 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I guess you're asking can this question result in people becoming religious?

It probably does in some ways.

But I don't know why since all religions must either believe god made the universe from a part of gods own self, from things he found lying around the universe which have always been there, or from nothing.

I mainly focus on Islam when I debate and I know for certain SO many muslims use the argument that something can't come from nothing which is laughable since the quran actually says god has the ability to make things just by saying the words "be" and made man while he was still nothing (whatever that means)

The point really is no matter which god you believe in you either believe god is the universe or he made the universe from nothing. Or you just believe stuff is there and god manipulated it.

Er, I'd say that the theist argument is that something can't naturally come from nothing, but we assume that the naturally is understood.

"We like to make special considerations for our God. He's supernatural, can do anything, and isn't human but is somehow still male. He's three Gods in one. Basically, if something sounds like bullshit, we just attribute it to God, and stop thinking about it."