Al can be used to describe general it doesn't always me the or a specific reference. So it can be talking about religion in general.

(March 28, 2014 at 1:35 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(March 23, 2014 at 2:58 am)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab

Wrote:

---

I never said Muslims cannot go to hell earlier, I only referenced the ayah you spoke of. Also I am not a Muslim



Actually the part that says "there is no compulsion in religion" is not mistranslated although it is taken out of context. What it means by that is that Islam is so obviously correct that people who are kuffar are just rejecting the "truth".

---

What it means is that there is no conpulsion in "The Religion" or "la-Dini". The alif is always left out or it will specify only 1 specific religion. When you can read Arabic it makes things a lot more easier

---

---

Be my guest although I do admit that if you are a Shiya then I am screwed. I just started reading al-Kafi today



I pray to Allah daily, I worship Allah daily and me and you are not very different in some regards. I have a theology that is of the previous model.


No human being is fit for paradise and I personally believe I am not only fit for hell but will be there.


I could not agree more. Personally I was not very fond of the afterlife in Islam, it was just weird. It was very carnal and sexualized and being an asexual and a functioning recluse this sounded like torture. I literally have very little knowledge on matters of the afterlife. The minute I learned about it I just stopped.


I would not follow the Sunnah at all. I should mention I was a Qur'anist for a few months until I wrapped up my sajjada and called it quits

---

The problem with ethnocentric Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales like the Bible and the Koran is that the reader is expected to translate them every time he reads them. I suppose all of the previous translators who transcribed them into other languages didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Nope, the translators did a good and poor job often. There is no single translation which is not bias since what you are reading is a transliterated interpretation because a lot of this shit is unreadable. Qur'an is poorly written and not a clear piece of poetry. It is fractured, skips, over repeats and lengthens itself unnecessarily. Translators like hiding errors while being honest on some parts but not others.

(April 12, 2014 at 3:47 pm)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote:

(March 28, 2014 at 1:35 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The problem with ethnocentric Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales like the Bible and the Koran is that the reader is expected to translate them every time he reads them. I suppose all of the previous translators who transcribed them into other languages didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Nope, the translators did a good and poor job often. There is no single translation which is not bias since what you are reading is a transliterated interpretation because a lot of this shit is unreadable. Qur'an is poorly written and not a clear piece of poetry. It is fractured, skips, over repeats and lengthens itself unnecessarily. Translators like hiding errors while being honest on some parts but not others.

The Koran has some major faults but it's better than the Book of Mormon.

Hmm my experience in the Middle East.

I've asked people from Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Afghanistan, and Iraq. They believe the west and non-believers should die. They also believe the west and non-believers can bring forth Jesus to rain down death upon them. I still believe around 99% of the Middle East as delusional.

(March 16, 2014 at 3:34 pm)Marsellus Wallace Wrote:

(March 16, 2014 at 3:12 pm)tor Wrote: I want to know why don't they follow the commands of their god and what they think about those people who do.

The god in Quran tells the muslims to kill them .
Most of the people who believe in the Quran, also believe that Islam is the religion of peace, so they cherry pick from the Quran and eventually they don't kill anyone, and their opinion on the ones who do follow the Quran : is that they are terrorists and that Islam is not the reason for this and its just an act of a few .

Misquoted Verse #6
"And slay them wherever ye catch them.." [Noble Quran 2:191]
A classic and popular example of what Muslim scholars, like Dr. Jamal Badawi, call a 'cut and paste' approach. Everything becomes so much easier for the Anti-Islamists when they remove the context. The solution for the Muslim is to simply replace the verse in its context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." [Noble Quran 2:190-194]

Also it is also important to note that the Quran clearly condemns murder. The Quran says about the prohibition of murder:

Take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom." [Noble Quran 6:151]

Nor take life, which God has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas(retribution) or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law) [Noble Quran 17:33]

"...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people." [Noble Quran 5:32]

So the Quran makes it very clear that Muslims cannot initiate an attack against others, unless there is an immediate threat of being attacked. The context of the quoted verses applies only to situations where the oppressors are killing Muslims. In this case, they have a right to defend themselves and others, especially the weak and oppressed.

"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge." [Noble Quran 9:6]

The Quran not only says that a Mushrik(pagans) seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place.

In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don't just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security? This is exactly what Allah says in the Glorious Quran to promote peace in the world.

Hope it clears everything.

(April 20, 2014 at 7:26 am)rhn2704 Wrote:

(March 16, 2014 at 3:34 pm)Marsellus Wallace Wrote: The god in Quran tells the muslims to kill them .
Most of the people who believe in the Quran, also believe that Islam is the religion of peace, so they cherry pick from the Quran and eventually they don't kill anyone, and their opinion on the ones who do follow the Quran : is that they are terrorists and that Islam is not the reason for this and its just an act of a few .

Misquoted Verse #6
"And slay them wherever ye catch them.." [Noble Quran 2:191]
A classic and popular example of what Muslim scholars, like Dr. Jamal Badawi, call a 'cut and paste' approach. Everything becomes so much easier for the Anti-Islamists when they remove the context. The solution for the Muslim is to simply replace the verse in its context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." [Noble Quran 2:190-194]

Also it is also important to note that the Quran clearly condemns murder. The Quran says about the prohibition of murder:

Take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom." [Noble Quran 6:151]

Nor take life, which God has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas(retribution) or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law) [Noble Quran 17:33]

"...if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people." [Noble Quran 5:32]

So the Quran makes it very clear that Muslims cannot initiate an attack against others, unless there is an immediate threat of being attacked. The context of the quoted verses applies only to situations where the oppressors are killing Muslims. In this case, they have a right to defend themselves and others, especially the weak and oppressed.

"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge." [Noble Quran 9:6]

The Quran not only says that a Mushrik(pagans) seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place.

In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don't just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security? This is exactly what Allah says in the Glorious Quran to promote peace in the world.

Hope it clears everything.

No not really. As with every 'holy' text, it relies on an interpretation uniformly and universally accepted.

If only life were so simple.

the truth is, you could cite over and over how 'peaceful' the Quran is, and I could show you myriad examples of where people use it to justify violence and murder against others.

Subjectivity is the downfall of apologetics.

(April 20, 2014 at 7:26 am)rhn2704 Wrote: Misquoted Verse #6
"And slay them wherever ye catch them.." [Noble Quran 2:191]
A classic and popular example of what Muslim scholars, like Dr. Jamal Badawi, call a 'cut and paste' approach. Everything becomes so much easier for the Anti-Islamists when they remove the context. The solution for the Muslim is to simply replace the verse in its context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." [Noble Quran 2:190-194]

This appears to be a classic cut-and-paste job from here. If you're going to quote sources, at least give proper citations.

(April 21, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(April 20, 2014 at 7:26 am)rhn2704 Wrote: Misquoted Verse #6
"And slay them wherever ye catch them.." [Noble Quran 2:191]
A classic and popular example of what Muslim scholars, like Dr. Jamal Badawi, call a 'cut and paste' approach. Everything becomes so much easier for the Anti-Islamists when they remove the context. The solution for the Muslim is to simply replace the verse in its context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." [Noble Quran 2:190-194]

This appears to be a classic cut-and-paste job from here. If you're going to quote sources, at least give proper citations.

All this guy does is quote mine from apologist websites. He doesn't really have any thoughts of his own it seems.

(April 12, 2014 at 11:44 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(April 12, 2014 at 3:47 pm)Shaykh al-Kabir Shair Abdulrab Wrote: Nope, the translators did a good and poor job often. There is no single translation which is not bias since what you are reading is a transliterated interpretation because a lot of this shit is unreadable. Qur'an is poorly written and not a clear piece of poetry. It is fractured, skips, over repeats and lengthens itself unnecessarily. Translators like hiding errors while being honest on some parts but not others.

The Koran has some major faults but it's better than the Book of Mormon.

I will not deny your logic on that one to be honest. Even though the Book of Mormon is entire shit one can at least understand the Qur'an as a mythological work, which it is.

(March 16, 2014 at 3:36 pm)tor Wrote:

(March 16, 2014 at 3:34 pm)Marsellus Wallace Wrote: The god in Quran tells the muslims to kill them .
Most of the people who believe in the Quran, also believe that Islam is the religion of peace, so they cherry pick from the Quran and eventually they don't kill anyone, and their opinion on the ones who do follow the Quran : is that they are terrorists and that Islam is not the reason for this and its just an act of a few .

Which is why I ask if Allah commands those things or not.
Because either.

He does command it and they disobey.
OR
He does not command it and quran contains false statements.

I want to know which one (I love dichotomies).

This is because most people dont understand Quran in its contexual meaning and interpret it wrongly