(May 21, 2014 at 6:18 pm)Heywood Wrote: Basically you are saying abortion is okay because some human beings do not have the same worth as others. This was the same argument the Americans used to slaughter the native population of North America. It is the ideology that is responsible for the more evil in the world than any other.

I can only assume that you're referring to the annihilation of the native population of the Western hemisphere by Christians, the undisputed masters of the ideology (no less today than 200 years ago) that certain humans are more valuable than others.

(May 21, 2014 at 6:18 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 3:22 pm)Losty Wrote: Deidre my love, yes of course a fetus grow, inside of its mother's womb. The point was just like a sperm cannot become a fetus without the egg and the uterin wall, a fetus cannot become a baby on its own. If you have a fetus outside of a womb it will not grow in its own.

You cannot exist in 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the universe. Losty without the planet earth is every bit as dead as a fetus outside the womb. Every living things needs a specific environment to exist within.....a fetus is no different.

Wow Heywood! Amazing argument. Thank you so much for this! I am now ant-abortion and anti-throwing people off the edge of the earth! My life has been forever changed!

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(May 21, 2014 at 6:18 pm)Heywood Wrote: Basically you are saying abortion is okay because some human beings do not have the same worth as others. This was the same argument the Americans used to slaughter the native population of North America. It is the ideology that is responsible for the more evil in the world than any other.

What is your criteria for a human being?

(May 21, 2014 at 6:45 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 6:18 pm)Heywood Wrote: Basically you are saying abortion is okay because some human beings do not have the same worth as others. This was the same argument the Americans used to slaughter the native population of North America. It is the ideology that is responsible for the more evil in the world than any other.

I can only assume that you're referring to the annihilation of the native population of the Western hemisphere by Christians, the undisputed masters of the ideology (no less today than 200 years ago) that certain humans are more valuable than others.

What do Christians, NAZI's, and Pro-abortion people have in common? They all practice an ideology which dictates that some human beings are worth more than others.

Now on the individual level, there is nothing wrong with this. We value our spouses and children more than we value the spouses and children of our neighbors. However, as a social policy it sucks. It is the policy that led to the genocide of the Jews and Native Americans and countless others.

Abortion has its foundation in this same policy.

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(May 21, 2014 at 4:12 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I know what you mean. I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. Sometimes for some people, abortion is the best option. Sometimes it's the only option. It isn't my place to tell someone what options are best for them. I know someone who had an abortion too. She never struggled with it and she never felt guilty. She doesn't think abortions are fun and she doesn't go around telling people to have them, but she does counsel people who struggle after abortion. I've talked with her a lot about it. She says she has no regrets because she knows what she did was right for herself, her family, and even her fetus.
Being anti choice is not the way to go about ending abortion. We could almost completely cut out all abortions that aren't medically necessary. The brick wall that is blocking our path is that the same people who are anti-choice are generally also anti-sexual education, anti-contraceptives, anti-women's health in general. Political figures who advocate against choice also advocate against sex ed that teaches anything but abstinence, they advocate huge cuts in what health insurance should have to cover for women, they advocate against birth control, they advocate against health care for newborn babies whose parents cannot afford it, they advocate against everything that we would need to reduce abortions. It pisses me off.

You say there is a dark side to abortion. Well if it comes to a child suffering because their parents cannot afford to feed them, buy them clothes, and give them proper health care, or because their parents don't want them and cannot be bothered to care for them properly, I see abortion as the lessor of two evils.

You are trying to take both sides of the issue....saying it is wrong and not wrong.

Take a stand.

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(May 21, 2014 at 6:52 pm)Losty Wrote: What is your criteria for a human being?

Open up a junior high biology text and it will likely contain a graphic of the life cycle of a human being. The graphic will include a zygote and senior citizen.

(May 21, 2014 at 10:21 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 6:45 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: I can only assume that you're referring to the annihilation of the native population of the Western hemisphere by Christians, the undisputed masters of the ideology (no less today than 200 years ago) that certain humans are more valuable than others.

What do Christians, NAZI's, and Pro-abortion people have in common? They all practice an ideology which dictates that some human beings are worth more than others.

Now on the individual level, there is nothing wrong with this. We value our spouses and children more than we value the spouses and children of our neighbors. However, as a social policy it sucks. It is the policy that led to the genocide of the Jews and Native Americans and countless others.

Abortion has its foundation in this same policy.

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(May 21, 2014 at 4:12 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I know what you mean. I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. Sometimes for some people, abortion is the best option. Sometimes it's the only option. It isn't my place to tell someone what options are best for them. I know someone who had an abortion too. She never struggled with it and she never felt guilty. She doesn't think abortions are fun and she doesn't go around telling people to have them, but she does counsel people who struggle after abortion. I've talked with her a lot about it. She says she has no regrets because she knows what she did was right for herself, her family, and even her fetus.
Being anti choice is not the way to go about ending abortion. We could almost completely cut out all abortions that aren't medically necessary. The brick wall that is blocking our path is that the same people who are anti-choice are generally also anti-sexual education, anti-contraceptives, anti-women's health in general. Political figures who advocate against choice also advocate against sex ed that teaches anything but abstinence, they advocate huge cuts in what health insurance should have to cover for women, they advocate against birth control, they advocate against health care for newborn babies whose parents cannot afford it, they advocate against everything that we would need to reduce abortions. It pisses me off.

You say there is a dark side to abortion. Well if it comes to a child suffering because their parents cannot afford to feed them, buy them clothes, and give them proper health care, or because their parents don't want them and cannot be bothered to care for them properly, I see abortion as the lessor of two evils.

You are trying to take both sides of the issue....saying it is wrong and not wrong.

Take a stand.

I don't like it, but I don't think wrong to have an abortion before 24 weeks. It doesn't make me feel good to think about it.

Quote:

(May 21, 2014 at 6:52 pm)Losty Wrote: What is your criteria for a human being?

Open up a junior high biology text and it will likely contain a graphic of the life cycle of a human being. The graphic will include a zygote and senior citizen.

I asked you a question Heywood. You're not going to answer?

(May 21, 2014 at 10:21 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 6:45 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: I can only assume that you're referring to the annihilation of the native population of the Western hemisphere by Christians, the undisputed masters of the ideology (no less today than 200 years ago) that certain humans are more valuable than others.

What do Christians, NAZI's, and Pro-abortion people have in common? They all practice an ideology which dictates that some human beings are worth more than others.

Now on the individual level, there is nothing wrong with this. We value our spouses and children more than we value the spouses and children of our neighbors. However, as a social policy it sucks. It is the policy that led to the genocide of the Jews and Native Americans and countless others.

Abortion has its foundation in this same policy.

---

(May 21, 2014 at 4:12 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I know what you mean. I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. Sometimes for some people, abortion is the best option. Sometimes it's the only option. It isn't my place to tell someone what options are best for them. I know someone who had an abortion too. She never struggled with it and she never felt guilty. She doesn't think abortions are fun and she doesn't go around telling people to have them, but she does counsel people who struggle after abortion. I've talked with her a lot about it. She says she has no regrets because she knows what she did was right for herself, her family, and even her fetus.
Being anti choice is not the way to go about ending abortion. We could almost completely cut out all abortions that aren't medically necessary. The brick wall that is blocking our path is that the same people who are anti-choice are generally also anti-sexual education, anti-contraceptives, anti-women's health in general. Political figures who advocate against choice also advocate against sex ed that teaches anything but abstinence, they advocate huge cuts in what health insurance should have to cover for women, they advocate against birth control, they advocate against health care for newborn babies whose parents cannot afford it, they advocate against everything that we would need to reduce abortions. It pisses me off.

You say there is a dark side to abortion. Well if it comes to a child suffering because their parents cannot afford to feed them, buy them clothes, and give them proper health care, or because their parents don't want them and cannot be bothered to care for them properly, I see abortion as the lessor of two evils.

You are trying to take both sides of the issue....saying it is wrong and not wrong.

Take a stand.

---

(May 21, 2014 at 6:52 pm)Losty Wrote: What is your criteria for a human being?

Open up a junior high biology text and it will likely contain a graphic of the life cycle of a human being. The graphic will include a zygote and senior citizen.

So, let me ask you. By your criteria, when is abortion allowable?

1. When a girl/woman is raped and ends up pregnant.
2. Same as above but the girl is 10-14 years old
3. As above, but the case is incest
4. COntinuing the pregnancy puts the mother's life at high risk
5. Severe abnormality of the fetus.
6. As 5., but the fetus likely live but require medical care all of its life, and will be severly brain damaged.

(May 21, 2014 at 10:32 pm)Losty Wrote: I asked you a question Heywood. You're not going to answer?

Your question is like asking what is a red ball. A red ball is a ball that is the color red.

What is a human being? A human being is a being of the species human. You can look at elementary texts to see what is scientifically considered to be an organism or being. If you look a little further you will see diagrams of the life cycle of a human being that include zygotes.

Losty, you are pro the giving a choice to people to kill other human beings.

(May 21, 2014 at 10:36 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 10:21 pm)Heywood Wrote: What do Christians, NAZI's, and Pro-abortion people have in common? They all practice an ideology which dictates that some human beings are worth more than others.

Now on the individual level, there is nothing wrong with this. We value our spouses and children more than we value the spouses and children of our neighbors. However, as a social policy it sucks. It is the policy that led to the genocide of the Jews and Native Americans and countless others.

Abortion has its foundation in this same policy.

---

You are trying to take both sides of the issue....saying it is wrong and not wrong.

Take a stand.

---

Open up a junior high biology text and it will likely contain a graphic of the life cycle of a human being. The graphic will include a zygote and senior citizen.

So, let me ask you. By your criteria, when is abortion allowable?

1. When a girl/woman is raped and ends up pregnant.
2. Same as above but the girl is 10-14 years old
3. As above, but the case is incest
4. COntinuing the pregnancy puts the mother's life at high risk
5. Severe abnormality of the fetus.
6. As 5., but the fetus likely live but require medical care all of its life, and will be severly brain damaged.

1-3 are irrelevant. A woman's body has ways of shutting that whole thing down

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(May 21, 2014 at 10:39 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 10:32 pm)Losty Wrote: I asked you a question Heywood. You're not going to answer?

Your question is like asking what is a red ball. A red ball is a ball that is the color red.

What is a human being? A human being is a being of the species human. You can look at elementary texts to see what is scientifically considered to be a human being.

Actually what constitutes a human being is debated more often than you think. That's why I like to use the word person.
I didn't ask you what is a human being.
I asked you what is your criteria for something to be a human being. Why is that so hard?

(May 21, 2014 at 10:41 pm)Losty Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 10:36 pm)Beccs Wrote: So, let me ask you. By your criteria, when is abortion allowable?

1. When a girl/woman is raped and ends up pregnant.
2. Same as above but the girl is 10-14 years old
3. As above, but the case is incest
4. COntinuing the pregnancy puts the mother's life at high risk
5. Severe abnormality of the fetus.
6. As 5., but the fetus likely live but require medical care all of its life, and will be severly brain damaged.

1-3 are irrelevant. A woman's body has ways of shutting that whole thing down

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(May 21, 2014 at 10:39 pm)Heywood Wrote: Your question is like asking what is a red ball. A red ball is a ball that is the color red.

What is a human being? A human being is a being of the species human. You can look at elementary texts to see what is scientifically considered to be a human being.

Actually what constitutes a human being is debated more often than you think. That's why I like to use the word person.
I didn't ask you what is a human being.
I asked you what is your criteria for something to be a human being. Why is that so hard?

Hopefully this year womens' hands will be used to shut down idiots like that when they vote.

(May 21, 2014 at 10:36 pm)Beccs Wrote: So, let me ask you. By your criteria, when is abortion allowable?

1. When a girl/woman is raped and ends up pregnant.
2. Same as above but the girl is 10-14 years old
3. As above, but the case is incest
4. COntinuing the pregnancy puts the mother's life at high risk
5. Severe abnormality of the fetus.
6. As 5., but the fetus likely live but require medical care all of its life, and will be severly brain damaged.

In my opinion abortion is never allowable except as an artifact to treat a medical condition provided all reasonable care was taken to safeguard the life of the unborn.

An ectopic pregnancy, to my knowledge, cannot be treated in a way that preserves the life of the unborn. It is a good example of an allowable "abortion". I don't really consider it an abortion because the termination of the fetus is a result of secondary effects or unintended consequences of a treatment of a life threating condition. An abortion is a conscious decision to kill another human being simply because that human beings existence will in some way inconvenience you.

(May 21, 2014 at 10:51 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(May 21, 2014 at 10:36 pm)Beccs Wrote: So, let me ask you. By your criteria, when is abortion allowable?

1. When a girl/woman is raped and ends up pregnant.
2. Same as above but the girl is 10-14 years old
3. As above, but the case is incest
4. COntinuing the pregnancy puts the mother's life at high risk
5. Severe abnormality of the fetus.
6. As 5., but the fetus likely live but require medical care all of its life, and will be severly brain damaged.

In my opinion abortion is never allowable except as an artifact to treat a medical condition provided all reasonable care was taken to safeguard the life of the unborn.

An ectopic pregnancy, to my knowledge, cannot be treated in a way that preserves the life of the unborn. It is a good example of an allowable "abortion". I don't really consider it an abortion because the termination of the fetus is a result of secondary effects or unintended consequences of a treatment of a life threating condition. An abortion is a conscious decision to kill another human being simply because that human beings existence will in some way inconvenience you.

So, basically, to hell with the victims of crimes. They should be forced to place their lives on hold and risk their health and their lives because some piece of shit can't keep his dick in his pants and feels he has the right to violate someone.

Gotcha.

I have noticed thtat those people, males in pareticular, who are anti-choice are also those who are against healthcare, support for the unemployed and poor, and anti-benefit.

Many I've encountered are also opposed to comprehensive sex education and access to birth control.