Posts: 3817
Threads: 5
Joined: November 19, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 26, 2014 at 9:46 am
(May 24, 2014 at 10:36 pm)snowtracks Wrote: (May 24, 2014 at 6:23 pm)Coffee Jesus Wrote: Yeeaaah, my post had absolutely nothing to do with the multiverse hypothesis. I was merely accusing the theistic explanation of circularity.
Why would a god necessarily want to make humans? Because the god thinks like humans do.
Why must the god think like a human? Because otherwise the god wouldn't have made people. so he must be stating that one universe with a zillion chances to get it wrong, and one chance to get right; and it just happened that one chance came up which would mean time, space, energy, matter and the 4 forces of nature: strong, electromagnetic, weak, and gravity hit the right combination. okay, go with that then.
What exactly do you mean by "the right combination"?
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Posts: 19587
Threads: 177
Joined: July 31, 2012
Reputation:
92
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 26, 2014 at 10:08 am
(May 26, 2014 at 9:46 am)Chas Wrote: (May 24, 2014 at 10:36 pm)snowtracks Wrote: so he must be stating that one universe with a zillion chances to get it wrong, and one chance to get right; and it just happened that one chance came up which would mean time, space, energy, matter and the 4 forces of nature: strong, electromagnetic, weak, and gravity hit the right combination. okay, go with that then.
What exactly do you mean by "the right combination"?
Must be something like this:
![[Image: iphone-4-digit-pin.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.graboneblog.co.nz%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2Fiphone-4-digit-pin.png)
Posts: 10467
Threads: 15
Joined: September 9, 2011
Reputation:
119
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 26, 2014 at 10:24 am
(May 24, 2014 at 10:36 pm)snowtracks Wrote: (May 24, 2014 at 6:23 pm)Coffee Jesus Wrote: Yeeaaah, my post had absolutely nothing to do with the multiverse hypothesis. I was merely accusing the theistic explanation of circularity.
Why would a god necessarily want to make humans? Because the god thinks like humans do.
Why must the god think like a human? Because otherwise the god wouldn't have made people. so he must be stating that one universe with a zillion chances to get it wrong, and one chance to get right; and it just happened that one chance came up which would mean time, space, energy, matter and the 4 forces of nature: strong, electromagnetic, weak, and gravity hit the right combination. okay, go with that then.
How do you know there were a zillion chances to get it wrong? Strong fine-tuning is based on a thought experiment: that the cosmological contents could have been different from each other, that none of their values depend on the value of any other, and that they could vary widely. None of that is known. All it is based on is that we don't know that none of that is true. In other words, it's an argument from ignorance. You can't realistically get any odds when only one result is known. Multiple universes aren't needed to explain something there's no actual evidence for. Multiple universes entered into scientific discourse for entirely separate reasons, they weren't invented to 'explain' strong fine-tuning, it was already lying around as a concept suggested by evidence and math.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
Posts: 2174
Threads: 89
Joined: August 26, 2012
Reputation:
38
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 26, 2014 at 11:52 am
(May 24, 2014 at 10:36 pm)snowtracks Wrote: (May 24, 2014 at 6:23 pm)Coffee Jesus Wrote: Yeeaaah, my post had absolutely nothing to do with the multiverse hypothesis. I was merely accusing the theistic explanation of circularity.
Why would a god necessarily want to make humans? Because the god thinks like humans do.
Why must the god think like a human? Because otherwise the god wouldn't have made people. so he must be stating that one universe with a zillion chances to get it wrong, and one chance to get right; and it just happened that one chance came up which would mean time, space, energy, matter and the 4 forces of nature: strong, electromagnetic, weak, and gravity hit the right combination. okay, go with that then. Imagine these two posits:
First, that for a thousand generations, your ancestors chose mates with the sole intention of producing you, Snowtracks. They each had to choose from billions of mates to produce the exact you, and if a single one of them failed to impregnate the right girl with just the right egg and just the right sperm, "Snowtracks" wouldn't exist. Those kind of odds staggers the mind doesn't it?
Conversely, the other position is simply that you are the result of a lot of random people fucking..
Which do you believe to be the case?
Find the cure for Fundementia!
Posts: 7140
Threads: 12
Joined: March 14, 2013
Reputation:
72
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 26, 2014 at 12:17 pm
(May 26, 2014 at 9:46 am)Chas Wrote: What exactly do you mean by "the right combination"? Well, just because god is a supreme being of unimaginable power who lives outside of space and time and can create anything he sets his mind to, doesn't mean he is free to create a universe that doesn't have the proper combination of settings in order to support life.
And no, that is not a contradiction at all, because this 2,300 year-old book says it isn't, and who are you going to believe???
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
Posts: 950
Threads: 1
Joined: October 10, 2013
Reputation:
2
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 28, 2014 at 1:11 am
(May 26, 2014 at 12:17 pm)Tonus Wrote: (May 26, 2014 at 9:46 am)Chas Wrote: What exactly do you mean by "the right combination"? Well, just because god is a supreme being of unimaginable power who lives outside of space and time and can create anything he sets his mind to, doesn't mean he is free to create a universe that doesn't have the proper combination of settings in order to support life.
And no, that is not a contradiction at all, because this 2,300 year-old book says it isn't, and who are you going to believe??? "doesn't mean he is free to create a universe that doesn't have the proper combination of settings in order to support life"
-----------------------------------------------------
a non-supporting life universe would be less complex?
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
Posts: 66519
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 28, 2014 at 1:28 am
Are you suggesting that the almighty is somehow constrained by externalities? Kind of unimpressive.....for a god...don't you think? Tell you what though.....if "god" had created a universe that wasn't capable of supporting life -and yet we remained-......well...that would have been a whole hell of alot more persuasive.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 6843
Threads: 0
Joined: February 22, 2014
Reputation:
15
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 28, 2014 at 1:39 am
The universe came from Nothing. The real question should be "where did Nothing come from"?
Posts: 1946
Threads: 17
Joined: February 6, 2014
Reputation:
18
Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 28, 2014 at 2:30 am
(May 28, 2014 at 1:11 am)snowtracks Wrote: (May 26, 2014 at 12:17 pm)Tonus Wrote: Well, just because god is a supreme being of unimaginable power who lives outside of space and time and can create anything he sets his mind to, doesn't mean he is free to create a universe that doesn't have the proper combination of settings in order to support life.
And no, that is not a contradiction at all, because this 2,300 year-old book says it isn't, and who are you going to believe??? "doesn't mean he is free to create a universe that doesn't have the proper combination of settings in order to support life"
-----------------------------------------------------
a non-supporting life universe would be less complex?
![[Image: u3a9ahas.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=img.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F05%2F28%2Fu3a9ahas.jpg)
Posts: 950
Threads: 1
Joined: October 10, 2013
Reputation:
2
RE: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.
May 29, 2014 at 12:14 am
(May 26, 2014 at 9:46 am)Chas Wrote: (May 24, 2014 at 10:36 pm)snowtracks Wrote: so he must be stating that one universe with a zillion chances to get it wrong, and one chance to get right; and it just happened that one chance came up which would mean time, space, energy, matter and the 4 forces of nature: strong, electromagnetic, weak, and gravity hit the right combination. okay, go with that then.
What exactly do you mean by "the right combination"? events and timing. here's one, 'the big whack' without out it earth would have continued to have a life-suffocating atmosphere.
http://www.space.com/23031-moon-origin-i...phere.html
Atheist Credo: A universe by chance that also just happened to admit the observer by chance.
|
