(May 28, 2014 at 9:59 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: • Christians are responsible for the worst atrocities in human history.

Christians are not responsible for the worst atrocities in human history. I know that you're going to say that Hitler was a christian because he was raised as a catholic, but he left the catholic church long before he became fuehrer. Read up on him and you can decide for yourself. We also have Lenin and Stalin in Russia, Mao in China, the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, Kim Jong-un in North Korea and many other "peace-loving" secularists around the world. We can't go back very far in history because secularist societies didn't exist much in the ancient world, but I could point out tons of atrocities committed by non-christians going way back.

(May 28, 2014 at 11:09 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 9:59 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: • Christians are responsible for the worst atrocities in human history.

Christians are not responsible for the worst atrocities in human history. I know that you're going to say that Hitler was a christian because he was raised as a catholic, but he left the catholic church long before he became fuehrer. ..

No he didn't! That was scrapped from the bottom of bullshit mountain. Do you know anything about Hitler and Mussolini's relationship with the catholic church?


Any Idea what is going on here?

Would an Atheist Hitler protect the Vatican in Rome?
Would an Atheist Hitler have every one of his soldiers wear a "god is with us" moto on their uniform?

Quote: Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism (quotes from Mein Kampf)


Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country. This text presents selected quotes from the infamous anti-Semite himself.


The Christianity of Hitler revealed in his speeches and proclamations


Hitler's own words reveal his feelings for God, Christianity and faith. Taken from speeches made by Hitler from the 1922 to 1939.


Quotes from Hitler's Henchmen and Nazi Sympathizers


A sample of quotes from Hitler's most powerful Nazis and sympathizers and how they felt about Christianity, Church and God.

(May 28, 2014 at 11:09 pm)Lek Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 9:59 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: • Christians are responsible for the worst atrocities in human history.

Christians are not responsible for the worst atrocities in human history. I know that you're going to say that Hitler was a christian because he was raised as a catholic, but he left the catholic church long before he became fuehrer.

This was specifically directed at the guy advancing unsupported claims about atheists being degenerates. However:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

- Adolph Hitler

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

Quote: Read up on him and you can decide for yourself. We also have Lenin and Stalin in Russia, Mao in China, the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, Kim Jong-un in North Korea and many other "peace-loving" secularists around the world. We can't go back very far in history because secularist societies didn't exist much in the ancient world, but I could point out tons of atrocities committed by non-christians going way back.

A case could be made that Christianity is in fact a leading killer worldwide, or at the very least religion is, but that's really for another thread. As far as secularism:

Pol Pot, leader of the Khmer Rouge:

"Prince Norodom Sihanouk said, “Pol Pot does not believe in God but he thinks that heaven, destiny, wants him to guide Cambodia in the way he thinks it the best for Cambodia, that is to say, the worst. Pol Pot is mad, you know, like Hitler.”

As far as Mao Zedong:

Quote:The following quotes are from: “Behind the bamboo curtain: China, Vietnam, and the world beyond Asia” By Priscilla Mary Roberts. Mao Zedong and Pham Van Dong, Beijing, November 17, 1968
Pham Van Dong: How are you, Chairman Mao?
Mao Zedong: Not very well. I have had a cough for some days. It is time to go to Heaven. It seems that I am summoned to meet the Good God. How is President Ho?

http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/37691432001

If you add up the body count, it is impressive in number. One of the reasons the body count of Christian atrocities will tend to be higher, and will continue to be is we simply have more technology available. The inquisition had superior equipment to the people they were torturing, Hitler had bombs, and machines of war.

That said, the goal of the post you're responding to is to make the same sort of claims about Christians as were being made about atheists, backed with actual data.

When I have access to more than a phone screen, I'll start a more in-depth thread.

---

(May 28, 2014 at 10:11 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(May 28, 2014 at 10:08 pm)Artur Axmann Wrote: how much worse would it be with fewer Christians?

You can't chase christians out of the national culture and conversation and then blame them for the aftermath.
put the gloves back on or over your mouth.

It's time to put the beer bottle down and sleep it off Artur..

Actually, his posts make a lot more sense if he's typing with his face.

From the book "Hitler's Secret Conversations", Hitler is quoted as follows: "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunized against the disease." (p 118 & 119) - and many other anti-christian quotes.

Hitler had reason to profess to be a christian in public to gain favor from the people, but in private he was vehemently anti-christian. If anyone tries to discredit this book, check out the opinions from all sides as to the authenticity of the quotes from it.

Too bad your source is discredited:

Quote:Trevor-Roper's most widely read and financially rewarding book covered the The Last Days of Hitler (1947). It emerged from his assignment as a British intelligence officer in 1945 to discover what happened in the last days of Hitler's bunker. From his interviews with a range of witnesses and study of surviving documents he demonstrated that Hitler was dead and had not escaped from Berlin. He also showed that Hitler's dictatorship was not an efficient unified machine but a hodge-podge of overlapping rivalries. However, his reputation was damaged in 1983 when he authenticated the Hitler Diaries and they were soon shown to be forgeries.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Trevor-Roper

Quote:Beware, this is a discredited source, and at the very best, its disputed, and no serious historian relies on this information...book at [...]). Another over-used source is Hermann Rauschning's "The Voice of Destruction: Hitler Speaks", which was already so heavily quoted by 1945 that it was explicitly mentioned and dismissed in OSS documents because of its unreliable nature. In
fact, May 1983, Swiss historian Wolfgang Haenel formally gathered together all of the criticisms of Rauschning's book and
resoundingly debunked it at a presentation at the annual conference of the Ingolstadt Contemporary History Research Center, showing
(among other things) that Hitler was not physically present at the times and places indicated, and that the financially desperate
Rauschning was paid a staggering sum of money to produce the book by French and American sources who wished to use it as propaganda.

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Secret-Con...B000CBOR6K

Quote:The majority of evidence for Hitler’s atheism comes from a single source called `Hitler’s Table Talk’; a collection of conversations with two of his closest aids. It allegedly contains such gems as:

“Our epoch will see the end of the disease that is Christianity”
“I shall never come to terms with the Christian lie".
However, the oft-cited English version of this work is an inaccurate translation of the German transcript. Indeed, the original German quotes do not even refer to Christianity. Furthermore, the translation omits passages that confirm Hitler’s religious views. These discrepancies can be attributed to the man who produced the French translation that subsequently spawned the English version. The translator, Francois Genoud, confessed to his fabrication years later, though his work still remains popular among historians willing to believe it. Additionally, many authors on the subject were unaware that their source material was bogus.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Was-Hitler-an-At...-Christian

(May 29, 2014 at 1:21 am)Lek Wrote: Hitler had reason to profess to be a christian in public to gain favor from the people, but in private he was vehemently anti-christian. If anyone tries to discredit this book, check out the opinions from all sides as to the authenticity of the quotes from it.

Sorry charlie, propagandistic books like that are obvious forgeries. Hitler bowed to christianity numerous times, he didn't have to for social pressure because he was what the rest of the world calls a "DICTATOR." Look up the meaning of the word. While you can whine and weasel with claims that he was a closet atheist only pretending to be a christian in order to gain certain social favors, you logic fails on dictators. They don't give a shit about popular opinion, their opinion becomes popular opinion by force.

I like your thinking about people "acting" like christians for "public favor."
Every damn christian I know acts that way. Funny how they claim to be persecuted by the atheists but enjoy enough "public favor" to the point of enticing fakery.

(May 28, 2014 at 9:58 pm)Artur Axmann Wrote: you're in the U.K... I'm sorry to hear that.. but that explains a great deal.

Don't be sorry, leastways not for me. Be sorry for yourself. It must be exhausting trying to be such a cunt all the time.

(May 28, 2014 at 9:58 pm)Artur Axmann Wrote: Maybe if there were more in the way of personal responsibility in the U.K. ,there would be less need for all the national programs .

National programs tailored on the principle of everyone helping each other is personal responsibility, you moron.

(May 28, 2014 at 9:11 pm)Artur Axmann Wrote: ooops ! there it is.. the ultimate self defense , face saving response ,the usual recourse of an inarticulate coward..

I call stupid!

Excuse me? What exactly am I defending myself from?
I called you a troll because you simply ignore or skip over everything I say. You say ridiculous things like, what was it? 'why do gays look for psychic ways to be able carry on their unnatural lifestyles?' or something like that.
And there was your racist comment about Africans being savages.
So....yea, I'd rather believe you were just trolling and not incredibly stupid, ignorant and bigoted.

Artur is riding the Fail Express Train to Disappointmentville, and just when you thought he couldn't get there any faster, here he is strapping rocket boosters on the train.