(June 7, 2014 at 3:43 pm)mickiel Wrote: Interesting. Lets keep this going and see if your myths can keep up with my facts then;

http://www.ancient.eu.com/Ishtar_Gate/

I found the articles about the Ark of the Covenant and Cain and Abel through the Bible archaeology site you provided a link to. There are several related sites and the archaeology one provided the links to articles which aren't about archaeology.

There's evidence that Nebuchadnezzar II really existed but the Ishtar Gate doesn't prove that Ishtar really exists even though Nebuchadnezzar II probably believed that she did.

There's nothing astonishing about the fact that some bits of the Bible are about real places but when it comes to events history was written to create the kind of history the Israelites wanted. Did you know that a Pharaoh really did pursue a group of people who left Egypt and they ended up in Canaan? They weren't slaves, though.

The Hyksos

Quote:The Hyksos or Hycsos (/ˈhɪksɒs/ or /ˈhɪksoʊz/;[3] Egyptian heqa khaseshet, "ruler(s) of the foreign countries"; Greek Ὑκσώς, Ὑξώς) were an Asiatic people from West Asia who took over the eastern Nile Delta, ending the Thirteenth dynasty of Egypt and initiating the Second Intermediate Period.[4]

Important Canaanite populations first appeared in Egypt towards the end of the 12th Dynasty c. 1800 BC, and either around that time or c. 1720 BC, formed an independent realm in the eastern Nile Delta.[5] The Canaanite rulers of the Delta, regrouped in the 14th Dynasty, coexisted with the Egyptian 13th Dynasty, based in Itjtawy. The power of the 13th and 14th dynasties progressively waned, perhaps due to famine and plague,[5][6] and c. 1650 BC both were invaded by the Hyksos, who formed their own dynasty, the 15th Dynasty. The collapse of the 13th Dynasty created a power vacuum in the south, which may have led to the rise of the 16th Dynasty, based in Thebes, and possibly of a local dynasty in Abydos.[5] Both were eventually conquered by the Hyksos, albeit for a short time in the case of Thebes. From then on, the 17th Dynasty took control of the Thebes and reigned for some time in peaceful coexistence with the Hyksos kings, perhaps as their vassals. Eventually, Seqenenre Tao, Kamose and Ahmose waged war against the Hyksos and expelled Khamudi, their last king, from Egypt c. 1550 BC.[5]

Here's the flight from Egypt as it really happened.

Under Ahmose

Quote:Ahmose I, who is regarded as the first king of the Eighteenth Dynasty may have been on the Theban throne for some time before he resumed the war against the Hyksos.

The details of his military campaigns are taken from the account on the walls of the tomb of another Ahmose, a soldier from El-Kab, a town in southern Upper Egypt, whose father had served under Seqenenra Tao II, and whose family had long been nomarchs of the districts. It seems,[citation needed] that several campaigns against the stronghold at Avaris were needed before the Hyksos were finally dislodged and driven from Lower Egypt. When this occurred is not known with certainty. Some authorities[who?] place the expulsion as early as Ahmose's fourth year, while Donald Redford, whose chronological structure has been adopted here, places it as late as the king's fifteenth year. The Ahmose who left the inscription states that he followed on foot as his King Ahmose rode to war in his chariot (the first mention of the use of the horse and chariot by the Egyptians); in the fighting around Avaris he captured prisoners and carried off several hands (as proof of slain enemies), which when reported to the royal herald resulted in his being awarded the "Gold of Valor" on three separate occasions. The actual fall of Avaris is only briefly mentioned:

"Then Avaris was despoiled. Then I carried off spoil from there: one man, three women, a total of four persons. Then his majesty gave them to me to be slaves."[39]

After the fall of Avaris, the fleeing Hyksos were pursued by the Egyptian army across northern Sinai and into southern Canaan. Here, in the Negev desert between Rafah and Gaza, the fortified town of Sharuhen was reduced after, according to the soldier from El-Kab, a long three-year siege operation.

Egyptian coffin, gold seal with king’s name found in Israel

Quote:Excavation directors Dr. Edwin van den Brink, Dan Kirzner and Dr. Ron Be’eri of the IAA said in a statement that they found “a cylindrical clay coffin with an anthropoid lid (a cover fashioned in the image of a person) surrounded by a variety of pottery consisting mainly of storage vessels for food, tableware, cultic vessels and animal bones. As was the custom, it seems these were used as offerings for the gods, and were also meant to provide the dead with sustenance in the afterlife.” Also in the grave were a bronze drinking bowl and a bronze dagger, all of which bore the marks of Canaanite, not Egyptian, design.

On the lid of the coffin is a naturalistic impression of a man’s face, with stylized hair in an Egyptian style, ears and, like sarcophagi of Egyptian pharaohs, hands crossed over the chest in the manner of the deceased. Inside was the body of an adult male — likely a wealthy man or a Canaanite official — beside whom lay a small golden scarab seal bearing the throne name of King Seti I of Egypt, one of the most powerful rulers of the Nile over 3,000 years ago.

The artifacts, said Be’eri, demonstrates “the presence or very strong cultural influence of Egypt in the Land of Israel during the second millennium BCE, probably amid Canaanite society or in the Canaanite cities that dominated the Jezreel Valley.”

It's hardly surprising, then, if some people from Canaan went to Egypt. Maybe a number of their descendants left with the Hyksos. What's certain, however, is that Pharaoh's chariots didn't come to a watery end in the Red Sea.

(June 7, 2014 at 4:55 pm)mickiel Wrote:

(June 7, 2014 at 4:21 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Once again, I'll ask you to stop re-defining terms to suit your ends. Archaeological evidence that people or places existed lend exactly zero gravity to the claim of existence or nonexistence for your deity.

I use terms as I understand them. I don't redefine anything. And archaeological evidence of people and places in the bible lend credence to the god of the bible. So we definitely disagree there.

http://www.bible-archaeology.info/bible_...ericho.htm

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(June 7, 2014 at 4:29 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: So you just want to pontificate beliefs and ignore contrary information.

Www://livejournal.com

In my view you are ignoring my information and it is you pontificating.

Oh, you're rubber and I'm glue?

Listen, if you can't support anything you're saying, it's just boring drivel, and you're eventually going to be banned for spamming and refusing to engage in discussion.

Is that what you want?

(June 7, 2014 at 5:00 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote:

(June 7, 2014 at 4:55 pm)mickiel Wrote: I use terms as I understand them. I don't redefine anything. And archaeological evidence of people and places in the bible lend credence to the god of the bible. So we definitely disagree there.

http://www.bible-archaeology.info/bible_...ericho.htm

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In my view you are ignoring my information and it is you pontificating.

Oh, you're rubber and I'm glue?

Listen, if you can't support anything you're saying, it's just boring drivel, and you're eventually going to be banned for spamming and refusing to engage in discussion.

Is that what you want?

I respond to everyone, I give the information I have, I explain my beliefs; if I am banned for that, I could careless. I have been in constant discussion here for two days, so I consider you're threat as meaningless.

I think it's more of an educated guess by what we know of consciousness, that he is saying it cannot emerge from non-consciousness. I think Athiests put alot of faith in evolution ability to create anything, any design, without knowing exactly how it did that other then the general explanation of mutations and natural selection.

(June 7, 2014 at 5:00 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote:

(June 7, 2014 at 4:55 pm)mickiel Wrote: I use terms as I understand them. I don't redefine anything. And archaeological evidence of people and places in the bible lend credence to the god of the bible. So we definitely disagree there.

http://www.bible-archaeology.info/bible_...ericho.htm

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In my view you are ignoring my information and it is you pontificating.

Oh, you're rubber and I'm glue?

Listen, if you can't support anything you're saying, it's just boring drivel, and you're eventually going to be banned for spamming and refusing to engage in discussion.

Is that what you want?

I am curious, this thread has over 2,200 views, and over 300 replies, how can you threaten me with being banned for spamming and not engaging in discussion??

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(June 7, 2014 at 5:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I think it's more of an educated guess by what we know of consciousness, that he is saying it cannot emerge from non-consciousness. I think Athiests put alot of faith in evolution ability to create anything, any design, without knowing exactly how it did that other then the general explanation of mutations and natural selection.

I think atheist do put a lot of faith in evolution, but they will deny its faith.

Faith is the evidence when there is no evidence.

(June 7, 2014 at 5:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I think it's more of an educated guess by what we know of consciousness, that he is saying it cannot emerge from non-consciousness.

So how does archaeological evidence that Herod the Great built palace-fortresses prove that?

(June 7, 2014 at 4:55 pm)mickiel Wrote: http://www.bible-archaeology.info/bible_...ericho.htm

Jericho - Bronze Age

Quote:Archaeological evidence indicates that in the latter half of the Middle Bronze Age (MBE, c. 1700 BCE) the city enjoyed some prosperity, its walls having been strengthened and expanded.[23] The MBE period and following centuries have engendered controversy due to their importance in the Biblical story of conquest of the "promised land" by the Israelites, during which the walls of the city are supposed to have collapsed, allowing the Israelites led by Joshua to enter the town. John Garstang, who excavated in the 1930s, announced that he had found fallen walls dating to the time of the biblical Battle of Jericho.[2] However, Garstang later revised the destruction to a much earlier period.[24] Kathleen Kenyon dated the destruction of the walled city to the middle of the 16th century (c. 1550 BCE), too early to match the Bible story, on the basis of her excavations in the early 1950s.[25] The same conclusion, based on an analysis of all the excavation findings, was reached by Piotr Bienkowski.[26] Kenyon's dating was challenged by Bryant Wood in 1990, largely on the argument that Kenyon had misinterpreted the ceramic evidence.[27] William Dever accused Wood of deceiving the public, while Bienkowski accused Wood of multiple errors, which Wood strenuously denied.[28][29][30] In 1995, Bruins and var der Plicht announced radiocarbon dating of the city destruction to between 1617 and 1530 BCE, agreeing with Kenyon.[31]

After the destruction of the city, occupation was minor until about the 11th century.[24]

Yes, it existed and walls fell down but it had nothing to do with Joshua.

(June 7, 2014 at 5:04 pm)mickiel Wrote: ...I could careless.

It's I couldn't care less!!!!

Yet another fucked up use of language by our resident English purity prude. Despite his frequent protestations, he keeps proving that he is the one with no respect for the English langage.

The biblical cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have been found as well. Interesting stunning find!

http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/200...orrah.aspx

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(June 7, 2014 at 6:06 pm)Cato Wrote:

(June 7, 2014 at 5:04 pm)mickiel Wrote: ...I could careless.

It's I couldn't care less!!!!

Yet another fucked up use of language by our resident English purity prude. Despite his frequent protestations, he keeps proving that he is the one with no respect for the English langage.

Thank you; I couldn't care less. My spelling and grammar is weak.

(June 7, 2014 at 6:14 pm)mickiel Wrote: The biblical cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have been found as well. Interesting stunning find!

http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/200...orrah.aspx

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(June 7, 2014 at 6:06 pm)Cato Wrote: It's I couldn't care less!!!!

Yet another fucked up use of language by our resident English purity prude. Despite his frequent protestations, he keeps proving that he is the one with no respect for the English langage.

Thank you; I couldn't care less. My spelling and grammar is weak.

You really should stop reading that biblical archeology site:

Quote:Sodom and Gomorrah (/ˈsɒd.əm/;[1] /ɡə.ˈmɔr.ə/[2]) were cities mentioned in the Book of Genesis and throughout the Hebrew Bible, the New Testament and in deuterocanonical sources, as well as the Qur'an. Whether or not they ever existed is disputed by archaeologists.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

A side note, not related to any particular post in this thread, but rather an amalgam thought (if there is such a thing) on the back-and-forth between our new theist and the non-believers:

It's curious to me how little respect our theists have. We do have the rare theists who come here and manage to respect people for the most part. Anyone remember Tackattack? He had the same ole ridiculous belief structure but he usually understood how to respect others while disagreeing with them. He didn't go around spouting off unsubstantiated claims about things he knew nothing about. He didn't go around making ridiculous strawman arguments about evolution or continuously berating people for using expletives. Rayaan is another example of a great theist here who doesn't go around annoying the holy fuck out of people.

What is it about believing in god that makes most believers such holy fucking assholes? They get all their information from their preacher or their youth pastor pal and don't even bother checking on their information before blathering it out like a gullible halfwit. AND they always precede that with how "unique" their particular views on god are and how "unchristian" they feel their position is ... all while they tout the Bible and praise the Genesis creation.

It's just so god damn predictably annoying.

You say you're not a christian, yet you smell like a christian, you talk like a christian, you act like a christian, you believe the same book as a christian, you're uneducated like a christian and you're an arrogant fucking asshole ... like a christian. Guess what, I see no difference. Accept it or not - I don't care, you're a christian.