(June 9, 2014 at 10:52 am)Kitanetos Wrote: [quote='Lek' pid='684441' dateline='1402324595']

What makes it all even more ridiculous is the religious concept of sin. Anything the theist personally finds abhorrent seemingly and coincidentally is also abhorrent to a god that shows absolutely no signs of being interested in our lives but becomes humanly upset at our supposed transgressions. It seems a great deal of projection is taking place.

You mean that a God who becomes man, lives among us, and sacrifices himself on the cross for us show absolutely no signs of being interested in us?

(June 10, 2014 at 12:00 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 9, 2014 at 10:52 am)Kitanetos Wrote: [quote='Lek' pid='684441' dateline='1402324595']

What makes it all even more ridiculous is the religious concept of sin. Anything the theist personally finds abhorrent seemingly and coincidentally is also abhorrent to a god that shows absolutely no signs of being interested in our lives but becomes humanly upset at our supposed transgressions. It seems a great deal of projection is taking place.

You mean that a God who becomes man, lives among us, and sacrifices himself on the cross for us show absolutely no signs of being interested in us?

Allegedly, 2000 years ago, with no sign of interest since.

(June 10, 2014 at 12:00 pm)Lek Wrote: You mean that a God who becomes man, lives among us, and sacrifices himself on the cross for us show absolutely no signs of being interested in us?

For most of the world, yes, actually: Jesus mentions that he came as the savior of the tribe of Israel, and that anyone outside of that select groups were akin to dogs. Don't you remember that passage?

(June 10, 2014 at 8:21 am)Esquilax Wrote: I don't know about you, but I don't even know what "walk with the spirit" means, let alone how one would go about it. The answer you've provided isn't useful, because it isn't a readily identifiable action: the question is "how do I keep from sinning?" and the apparent answer you've settled for is "perform the action that stops you from sinning."

That's great, but what is that action and how does one perform it? What does it actually achieve and why would one do that? This is why I said earlier that providing "what" answers to "why" questions isn't helpful; there's no method or purpose or reason involved with "what" answers, and in the case of the bible the "what" itself is completely devoid of context.

When one believes and has faith in Christ he receives the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit involves keeping in touch via prayer and study of the word. He's promised to guide us.

(June 10, 2014 at 12:05 pm)Lek Wrote: When one believes and has faith in Christ he receives the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit involves keeping in touch via prayer and study of the word. He's promised to guide us.

How does he guide you? What experiences do you have which you interpret as Christ guiding you?

(June 10, 2014 at 12:05 pm)Lek Wrote: When one believes and has faith in Christ he receives the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit involves keeping in touch via prayer and study of the word. He's promised to guide us.

But Christians sin all the time. The whole premise of Jesus' death and resurrection is that the sins you can't help but commit are forgiven. Are you saying you never sin, Lek?

(June 10, 2014 at 12:05 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(June 10, 2014 at 12:00 pm)Lek Wrote: You mean that a God who becomes man, lives among us, and sacrifices himself on the cross for us show absolutely no signs of being interested in us?

For most of the world, yes, actually: Jesus mentions that he came as the savior of the tribe of Israel, and that anyone outside of that select groups were akin to dogs. Don't you remember that passage?

When bible speaks of who belongs to Israel sometimes it is referring to the physical nation and descendants. In other cases it refers to the spiritual Israel which includes all "children of the promise". All who are part of Christ are part of Israel and we all are offered this opportunity. Conversely, those who are not part of Christ are not part of the spiritual Israel as illustrated below.
Romans 9:6-8
(6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[a] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.)

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(June 10, 2014 at 12:15 pm)Esquilax Wrote: But Christians sin all the time. The whole premise of Jesus' death and resurrection is that the sins you can't help but commit are forgiven. Are you saying you never sin, Lek?

No. But I don't live a life in rebellion against God. Sometimes, though, I do fail to live in the Spirit

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(June 10, 2014 at 12:12 pm)Confused Ape Wrote:

(June 10, 2014 at 12:05 pm)Lek Wrote: When one believes and has faith in Christ he receives the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit involves keeping in touch via prayer and study of the word. He's promised to guide us.

How does he guide you? What experiences do you have which you interpret as Christ guiding you?

Mostly through my conscience, but sometimes it becomes evident to me that I should choose one course of action over another, even though I normally would have chosen another.

(June 10, 2014 at 12:20 pm)Lek Wrote: No. But I don't live a life in rebellion against God. Sometimes, though, I do fail to live in the Spirit

Of course you do. You actively rebel against 99.9% of all gods, just not the one your cultural tradition brainwashed you into believing was the right one. But according to the Koran, you're going to hell. Sucks, doesn't it?

Quote:Mostly through my conscience, but sometimes it becomes evident to me that I should choose one course of action over another, even though I normally would have chosen another.

Oh you mean in the instances when you do use your brain you just don't attribute it to your brain. Makes sense.

(June 10, 2014 at 12:20 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 10, 2014 at 12:12 pm)Confused Ape Wrote: How does he guide you? What experiences do you have which you interpret as Christ guiding you?

Mostly through my conscience, but sometimes it becomes evident to me that I should choose one course of action over another, even though I normally would have chosen another.

Isn't your conscience your own moral sense of what's right and wrong then?

(June 10, 2014 at 1:21 pm)Confused Ape Wrote:

(June 10, 2014 at 12:20 pm)Lek Wrote: Mostly through my conscience, but sometimes it becomes evident to me that I should choose one course of action over another, even though I normally would have chosen another.

Isn't your conscience your own moral sense of what's right and wrong then?

It is true that our consciences are formed in a large way by our teaching and experiences. I imagine your conscience allows you to do different things than mine allows me. You may think abortion is okay and I don't. Your conscience is formed by whatever influences have come to bear on you during your lifetime. My conscience has been formed through the influences on me, such as culture, christian teaching and the presence of the Spirit within me.