(June 9, 2014 at 9:02 pm)professor Wrote: You are never (I repeat- never) going to get the "Proofs" you are demanding.
The whole thing is set up opposite of your thinking.
On purpose.

Ah yes, Jesus is enamored of faith without reason isn't he? Those who come as children, those who do not reason, those who believe before they even hear him---these are his favorites. It's a sentiment I grew up on. (Though somehow or another Thomas and Peter get a pass despite needing to be shown the evidence. And then there are all those miracles for those not quite so blessed as to have the "gift" of faith. Funny how they tend to get rarer and rarer as science teaches us more and more about how the world actually works.)

The problem I see is this: faith in what or who? Many, many people have faith: Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Zoroastrians (yes there are a few of them still around), Christians, Mormons (who now think they are Christians), and many others.

If you all looked in your hearts and found the same faith or at the very least the same god, I might think you were finding something other than a refection of yourselves. But even when you are of the same faith, you look inside and find different answers. Doesn't that trouble you? Not even a little?

Or perhaps you think it's predestination, and those who are graced with belief are the chosen ones. In that case, why trouble with the rest of us? If we are chosen, we will have faith, if not, not. ---- What kind of a god do think would[/quote] do such a thing? Surely not a loving one.

(June 14, 2014 at 12:10 pm)Eye of God Wrote: It seems reasonable that threatening others with hell could further push away non believers from the real love of God.

Threatening others, period, is never going to win you any support for any cause.

Let's hope next time you grace us with your presence, your high horse upon which you ride is a tiny bit shorter.

(June 14, 2014 at 12:10 pm)Eye of God Wrote: I think I will take some time away and let you all calm down a bit. Esquilax made a couple good points about threatening hell which I may consider. It seems reasonable that threatening others with hell could further push away non believers from the real love of God.

Someone called me a Poe. I looked it up and I'm not a Poe. I'm the real messenger of God here to bring you to your master.

That rates a rep from me. Some thought there. Progress.

(June 14, 2014 at 1:12 pm)Welsh cake Wrote:

(June 14, 2014 at 12:10 pm)Eye of God Wrote: It seems reasonable that threatening others with hell could further push away non believers from the real love of God.

Threatening others, period, is never going to win you any support for any cause.

Let's hope next time you grace us with your presence, your high horse upon which you ride is a tiny bit shorter.

Atheists don't respond to threats of hell because they don't believe in it. That's like saying "I'm going to shoot you with this gun", but you don't see a gun in my hand. I just present what I believe to be the truth and leave the rest to God. We're not here to make people believe. We're here to spread the word. As for me, I'm also here to hear other opinions. This forum has changed the way I perceive others and also my perception of the way christians present themselves in our society. My outlook has changed quite a bit in the last six months, thanks to this forum.

(June 14, 2014 at 1:59 pm)Lek Wrote: Atheists don't respond to threats of hell because they don't believe in it. That's like saying "I'm going to shoot you with this gun", but you don't see a gun in my hand. I just present what I believe to be the truth and leave the rest to God. We're not here to make people believe. We're here to spread the word. As for me, I'm also here to hear other opinions. This forum has changed the way I perceive others and also my perception of the way christians present themselves in our society. My outlook has changed quite a bit in the last six months, thanks to this forum.

I don't believe in hell or heaven either. But I certainly do respond to threats of hell:

(1) I admit that some Christians do mention hell out of genuine concern (if misguided concern), but not always. Often they the person making the threat is often not the least bit benevolent. They are angry because I don't believe. Those people make me angry.

(2) They also make me wonder about the morals of a proposed god who prescribe an infinite punishment for a finite crime. Not even Hitler [or other evil man of choice] deserves to be punished for eternity. That the proposed god is also supposed to be just and loving in the final nail in the coffin.

So threatening hell is counterproductive if what you want is my belief. If what you want is my respect, your reason for bringing hell up better be concern. If you have learned that much, you've learned a lot.

(June 14, 2014 at 12:10 pm)Eye of God Wrote: I think I will take some time away and let you all calm down a bit.

Quit projecting. And, don't hurry back. Really, no rush. Take as long as you like. 60-70 years will be fine with me.

(June 14, 2014 at 12:10 pm)Eye of God Wrote: I'm the real messenger of God here to bring you to your master.

You know EoG, this level of arrogance is what really turns people off concerning you and the ass-hats like you who come here. You roll in here like you're King Shit of Turd Mountain with your condescending manner and holier-than-thou attitude then wonder why we mock you.

Assholes like you are a dime-a-dozen. You'll be gone shortly and forgotten quickly but there will be ten more, just like you, lined up waiting for their chance to come lead the children to gawd. We're not children, nor do we need you to hold our hands or lead us anywhere.

---

(June 14, 2014 at 12:21 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 14, 2014 at 2:43 am)Starvald Demelain Wrote: I though Christians held themselves to a "better" standard.

We do.

Only in your own minds.

(June 14, 2014 at 1:59 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 14, 2014 at 1:12 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: Threatening others, period, is never going to win you any support for any cause.

Let's hope next time you grace us with your presence, your high horse upon which you ride is a tiny bit shorter.

Atheists don't respond to threats of hell because they don't believe in it. That's like saying "I'm going to shoot you with this gun", but you don't see a gun in my hand. I just present what I believe to be the truth and leave the rest to God. We're not here to make people believe. We're here to spread the word. As for me, I'm also here to hear other opinions. This forum has changed the way I perceive others and also my perception of the way christians present themselves in our society. My outlook has changed quite a bit in the last six months, thanks to this forum.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I'm on my mobile.

Anyway, I think the question being begged here is, in regards to your analogy, why the hell are you pointing a gun, real or imagined, at anybody?

(June 14, 2014 at 1:59 pm)Lek Wrote: Atheists don't respond to threats of hell because they don't believe in it.

You're missing the point.

You can threaten my family by saying they're going to be sent to the anti-fun jail on Jupiter.

There is no anti-fun jail on Jupiter. We both know that. To discuss the 'context' of the threat is puerile.

However, the language being used is still unacceptable behavior and clearly hostile. A threat is still a threat, regardless of however idle it is.

(June 14, 2014 at 3:56 pm)Welsh cake Wrote:

(June 14, 2014 at 1:59 pm)Lek Wrote: Atheists don't respond to threats of hell because they don't believe in it.

You're missing the point.

You can threaten my family by saying they're going to be sent to the anti-fun jail on Jupiter.

There is no anti-fun jail on Jupiter. We both know that. To discuss the 'context' of the threat is puerile.

However, the language being used is still unacceptable behavior and clearly hostile. A threat is still a threat, regardless of however idle it is.

Sounds to me like that's exactly the point Lek was making...

(June 14, 2014 at 9:08 am)alpha male Wrote: He was properly responding to CD's statement, "it always comes down to "you were doing it wrong". How the holy fuck would you know?"

CD made it about actions ("doing it"). CD properly noted that we wouldn't know if he were doing it wrong or not, so GC asked him what he was doing.

My statement was specifically in reference to a conversation that I had with Drich about the A/S/K nonsense. His claim is directly from the bible: "Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and you shall be answered". When I told him that I had indeed done all of those things under the mentoring and instruction of my pastor, he shifted the goalposts and asked (paraphrasing) "did you stop sinning?", and insinuated that I did not ask, seek, or knock correctly - as if there are unambiguous instructions on how these things are accomplished.

That, in my experience, is typical. If you asked, and did not receive, you weren't asking correctly. If you sought, and did not find, it is your manner of seeking that is at fault. If you knock... well, you get the idea.

I ask again: How in the holy fuck would you know whether one does it correctly? The instructions are clear, the specifics are ambiguous. How can anyone a) see into my heart to know it's state, and b) know whether or not A/S/K was done correctly, when they cannot explain themselves how it is to be done?

Do explain. You'll be the first to do in my experience so if you can succeed at it.