Sorry, Arthur, as much as I would love to debate this issue, as far as I'm concerned it's been done to death, here and elsewhere.

You can find a similar thread elsewhere on AF where you can read the arguments. Debating here will just be reiterating what has already been said.

So, enjoy and welcome.

Minimalist, as a pragamtist, her intentions to me (and millions of people) are irrelevent.
Her actions did cause these deaths. That's the reality. I know it's wasn't her fault, but I'm not here to judge, just to point out the reality of her decision.


As an alternate point, what if the virgin Mary decided to "abort".
Hehe

(June 17, 2014 at 7:20 pm)Beccs Wrote: Sorry, Arthur, as much as I would love to debate this issue, as far as I'm concerned it's been done to death, here and elsewhere.

You can find a similar thread elsewhere on AF where you can read the arguments. Debating here will just be reiterating what has already been said.

So, enjoy and welcome.

What, you don't want to get in on the weekly abortion flamefest? Whyever not?

Quote:As an alternate point, what if the virgin Mary decided to "abort".

What a great way to give god the finger, eh?

Arther123,

I'm of about three possible minds about abortion, especially late term abortion. So I approach this issue without absolute ideology as to the rightness or wrongness of abortion.

However, I can't agree with your definition of a person. You keep referring to complete DNA as a person, though every cell in your body (with the exception of your sperm which has only a half set) contains a full set of your DNA. Clearly your individual cells are not more people. You are a person not a multitude. Right me if I'm wrong, but I think what you really mean is that a fetus is a potential baby and has all of the DNA to become a specific baby as described by the DNA.

This is where I think you make your mistake. A particular set of DNA is not a person (or any animal), it is a blue print for a person or animal. It's like mistaking the house plans for the building itself. Tearing them up before the house is built is not demolition.

Nothing to do with your DNA argument, but I think the Bible is on my side about whether a fetus is human. There is only one mention of terminating a pregnancy that I know of in the Bible. It's Exodus 21:22-25. It does not refer to abortion, but rather to the penalty to be exacted if two fighting men happen to hit a pregnant woman hard enough to cause a miscarriage. If the woman lives and has no serious injury, the husband is entitled to monetary compensation. If the woman dies, the penalty is death. So you see, fetus is not a person according to the Bible even if it may be of some importance to its father. (The woman apparently has no rights whatsoever---but then in the Old Testament she hardly ever does).

Quote:If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, eye for eye, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Exodus 21: 22-25

(Blood thirst huh? Eye for eye tooth for tooth. But not when the eyes and teeth have yet to be born)

So you see the law of Moses sees killing a woman quite differently than killing her unborn child. Though many ancient cultures prohibited abortion, none of them appear to have considered it murder. That is a modern post Biblical times construction.

Good points Arthur.

Like a few others I object to your use of the word murder. Murder is an illegal act, defined as illegal by law.

Also I don't think the correct word is moral. Ethical is the word you should use.

I think scientifically the zygote is a human being. Like it or not.

I'm pro choice. Sure it's an ethical question, and a choice given to parents by law. I guess I'd also like parents to appreciate the weight of the decision, (the same as I'd wish that other parents were spared the pain)... If only for their long term mental health.

What's your view on contraception like the morning after pill, or very early term abortion of a zygote?

If that was aimed at me rampant... Contraception is preventing a life from beginning. It's different from ending a life. A different ethical question.

Once conception has occurred, from a scientific point of view, ending the life is ending the life.

There should be a "sticky" thread about abortion. This shit is the most rehashed subject on AF and the direction of it is ALWAYS the same. The pro life group always get their asses handed to them.

I would say it was testicles not assess.