(June 19, 2014 at 9:05 am)pocaracas Wrote: You see?... the problem with this claim is that it can be demonstrated to be false.
You specify a very precise location (or several locations) where to find these beings, these dinosaurs.
With a god, the location is always diffuse, undefined... that makes it very difficult to disprove.
That's why the typical counter is the invisible pink unicorn, or Russel's teapot (even this one has somewhat of a specific location, but it's undetectable, so it works).

I understand Russel's teapot, but think the farting dinosaur gambit more closely aligns with the believer's ruse. It's easy to continue the game the same as believers by simply tacking on other non-falsifiable characteristics.

You went to the mountain tops and couldn't touch the dinosaurs? No problem, they saw you coming and moved.

You didn't hear them? They're silent. Just like believers we can make shit up to fend off reasonable challenges. Keep in mind the dinosaurs only reveal themselves to those that believe. If you believe, but are unable to detect them that just means you don't really believe.

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(June 19, 2014 at 9:09 am)fr0d0 Wrote: There's a million dollars on the floor around the corner. If you want it, just walk around the corner and take it. No catch.

No thanks. Until you hand it to me I won't believe that it's there.

Pascal's wager is terrible bait.

(June 19, 2014 at 9:18 am)Cato Wrote:

(June 19, 2014 at 9:05 am)pocaracas Wrote: You see?... the problem with this claim is that it can be demonstrated to be false.
You specify a very precise location (or several locations) where to find these beings, these dinosaurs.
With a god, the location is always diffuse, undefined... that makes it very difficult to disprove.
That's why the typical counter is the invisible pink unicorn, or Russel's teapot (even this one has somewhat of a specific location, but it's undetectable, so it works).

I understand Russel's teapot, but think the farting dinosaur gambit more closely aligns with the believer's ruse. It's easy to continue the game the same as believers by simply tacking on other non-falsifiable characteristics.

You went to the mountain tops and couldn't touch the dinosaurs? No problem, they saw you coming and moved.

You didn't hear them? They're silent. Just like believers we can make shit up to fend off reasonable challenges. Keep in mind the dinosaurs only reveal themselves to those that believe. If you believe, but are unable to detect them that just means you don't really believe.

I see... like Peter Pan's food, huh?

(June 19, 2014 at 9:18 am)Cato Wrote: Pascal's wager is terrible bait.

Pascals wager is post mortem. This is money you can spend now.

(June 19, 2014 at 9:23 am)pocaracas Wrote: I see... like Peter Pan's food, huh?

Peter Pan's food...
Clever demonstration of pure imagination.

(June 19, 2014 at 9:33 am)Cato Wrote:

(June 19, 2014 at 9:23 am)pocaracas Wrote: I see... like Peter Pan's food, huh?

Peter Pan's food...
Clever demonstration of pure imagination.

I think I'll make him an hororary Christian

(June 19, 2014 at 9:32 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Pascals wager is post mortem. This is money you can spend now.

You said no strings attached which is bullshit. Everybody knows you don't get a million dollars until you kiss Hank's ass and only then after he tells you to leave town; therefore, there is no immediate spending.

Man your just looking for any excuse not to take the money.

(June 19, 2014 at 9:46 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Man your just looking for any excuse not to take the money.

I'll bite. I'd walk around the corner and take the money. What's your point?

(June 19, 2014 at 9:48 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I'll bite. I'd walk around the corner and take the money. What's your point?

Atheists say that they won't believe in God unless he proves himself to them. They won't take the money without proof that it's there first.

(June 19, 2014 at 9:56 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(June 19, 2014 at 9:48 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I'll bite. I'd walk around the corner and take the money. What's your point?

Atheists say that they won't believe in God unless he proves himself to them. They won't take the money without proof that it's there first.

What a delightful equivocation fallacy.

The example of the money around the corner is something than can be proved with evidence, such as taking a look around the corner.

Belief in God is something that cannot be proved with evidence, as by definition God (allegedly) exists outside our realm of measurement and understanding.

Additionally, obtaining a million dollars in and of itself is something I would call and unmitigated positive result, whereas the proposition of God isn't.

A more apt analogy woud be: Around the corner there is a million dollars. You can't look around the corner, and you can't use any instruments to measure anything about the million dollars. In order to accept the million dollars, you must follow these certain rules for the rest of your life. If you don't accept that the million dollars exist, you get tortured forever.

Your analogy is sloppy.