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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 12:36 am
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2014 at 12:37 am by Purplundy.)
(June 30, 2014 at 12:15 am)Jenny A Wrote: Sure. We can do many things that have lasting effect both good and bad after we die. But then so can fault-lines, volcanoes, rivers, trees, comets, stars, and various other things you probably wouldn't consider to have souls.
But in terms of deep time, i.e. billions and billions of years, nothing we do is likely to last.
This doesn't trouble me. I still would like to do good that lasts after my death. It matters to me because it matters to me. There's nothing mystical about it. What matters is that I have a conscious brain here and now. I'm not exactly speaking in facts and figures, but I'm not adding some sort of magic to the observable, either. I'm saying that said 'magic' IS the observable.
I'd think you agree that people, at least (what religion comes from and centers on) don't equate bad things caused by chemical attacks to bad things caused by volcanoes, no matter how similar the effect, because what humans do simply is distinct from what non-humans do on a social level.
But nothing we do will last. Science and religion say the same thing. On a physical level, anyways. But the intangible truth that every dead person did exist and did affect the lives of other people won't disappear just because there will be no one to remember it.
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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 12:38 am
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2014 at 12:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Isn't the counterpoint to this that that is precisely what would happen - if no one where left to remember. Isn't that what makes something like genocide so horrid. That not only a people are being erased, but -if the machete wielders have their way - the very memory of that people? When talking about memories, it makes no sense whatsoever to claim that they are still "there" when no one remembers them any longer.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 2:42 am
(June 30, 2014 at 12:38 am)Rhythm Wrote: Isn't the counterpoint to this that that is precisely what would happen - if no one where left to remember. Isn't that what makes something like genocide so horrid. That not only a people are being erased, but -if the machete wielders have their way - the very memory of that people? When talking about memories, it makes no sense whatsoever to claim that they are still "there" when no one remembers them any longer. This wasn't about memories. It's about the fact that every single person to walk the Earth lived or is living, independent of humanity.
There are millions of people today who no one knows exist. That doesn't change the fact that they do.
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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 2:45 am
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2014 at 2:49 am by The Grand Nudger.)
-But it does modify the effect of that fact so much that there is no difference between the fact and it's negation.
We don't have knowledge of millions of people - therefore we have no grounds to claim that they exist/ed. Perhaps this instead. What are your best estimates as to the population numbers of the dominant species on the nearest habitable planet other than our own?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 8:14 am
Yeesh..just from the URL in the OP link you can tell it's bullshit..
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 12:11 pm
(June 30, 2014 at 12:36 am)Purplundy Wrote: (June 30, 2014 at 12:15 am)Jenny A Wrote: Sure. We can do many things that have lasting effect both good and bad after we die. But then so can fault-lines, volcanoes, rivers, trees, comets, stars, and various other things you probably wouldn't consider to have souls.
But in terms of deep time, i.e. billions and billions of years, nothing we do is likely to last.
This doesn't trouble me. I still would like to do good that lasts after my death. It matters to me because it matters to me. There's nothing mystical about it. What matters is that I have a conscious brain here and now. I'm not exactly speaking in facts and figures, but I'm not adding some sort of magic to the observable, either. I'm saying that said 'magic' IS the observable.
I'd think you agree that people, at least (what religion comes from and centers on) don't equate bad things caused by chemical attacks to bad things caused by volcanoes, no matter how similar the effect, because what humans do simply is distinct from what non-humans do on a social level.
But nothing we do will last. Science and religion say the same thing. On a physical level, anyways. But the intangible truth that every dead person did exist and did affect the lives of other people won't disappear just because there will be no one to remember it. Without people (or other intelligent beings) there is no morality at all. Is a tornado immoral? How about a lion eating a zebra alive? HIV? These things are all amoral. Morality does not apply to their actions.
My point is that the intangible truth that every dead person did exist and affected others is in no way different that what other things that existed in the universe did. The only difference between what people do and what a comet does, is that people place value what other people do. That's a good thing, but it doesn't have any lasting value beyond people's memories. For all practical purposes it will disappear when there is no one to remember it.
Without existing people it's an amoral universe.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 5:19 pm
(June 30, 2014 at 12:11 pm)Jenny A Wrote: My point is that the intangible truth that every dead person did exist and affected others is in no way different that what other things that existed in the universe did. The only difference between what people do and what a comet does, is that people place value what other people do. That's a good thing, but it doesn't have any lasting value beyond people's memories. For all practical purposes it will disappear when there is no one to remember it. Whether or not something is true does not depend on whether or not someone knows about it.
The occurence past event can not stop being true.
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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 7:57 pm
(June 30, 2014 at 5:19 pm)Purplundy Wrote: (June 30, 2014 at 12:11 pm)Jenny A Wrote: My point is that the intangible truth that every dead person did exist and affected others is in no way different that what other things that existed in the universe did. The only difference between what people do and what a comet does, is that people place value what other people do. That's a good thing, but it doesn't have any lasting value beyond people's memories. For all practical purposes it will disappear when there is no one to remember it. Whether or not something is true does not depend on whether or not someone knows about it.
The occurence past event can not stop being true.
Oh it still will have happened. It just won't mean anything.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 10:12 pm
Life is short. Death is eternal.
If there's no one left to read or remember, the cold universe doesn't know or care. Never did.
In fact the universe itself doesn't know it exists.
Then the whole concept of did " exist" must be meaningless.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Life after death?
June 30, 2014 at 10:15 pm
(June 29, 2014 at 6:14 am)Knowledge of God Wrote: (June 29, 2014 at 5:41 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Evidence?
You have none, which means you are confusing faith for fact, which also means nobody here should listen to you (as if they were anyway).
No evidence needed
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