(June 29, 2014 at 2:31 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Oh yes you can!

(June 29, 2014 at 11:01 am)Bucky Ball Wrote:

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(June 29, 2014 at 6:01 am)Knowledge of God Wrote: Are people believing in a universe nowadays..

Are people still believing in this ancient shit nowadays ?
"Through the mediation of Jesus Christ, I offer spiritual sacrifices that please God."

We know this universe exists. The probability that only one popped out of whatever conditions existed, seems unlikely, but we await EVIDENCE for others. One possible confirmation of others proposed was data seen in
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/
http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.1964
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/201...ull-t.html

Turns out it was premature, but that's how science works.

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inflationary multiverse models still require a beginning.

(July 2, 2014 at 1:55 am)snowtracks Wrote: inflationary multiverse models still require a beginning.

How can you possibly think you know that? As Ken Hamm enjoyed asking Mr Science, were you there? Didn't think so.

(July 2, 2014 at 1:55 am)snowtracks Wrote:

(June 29, 2014 at 11:01 am)Bucky Ball Wrote:

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Are people still believing in this ancient shit nowadays ?
"Through the mediation of Jesus Christ, I offer spiritual sacrifices that please God."

We know this universe exists. The probability that only one popped out of whatever conditions existed, seems unlikely, but we await EVIDENCE for others. One possible confirmation of others proposed was data seen in
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/
http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.1964
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/201...ull-t.html

Turns out it was premature, but that's how science works.

---

inflationary multiverse models still require a beginning.

They require a beginning of the inflation, not a beginning of the universe. The state of the universe prior to inflation is still up for grabs, scientifically. Did the universe come into existence spontaneously and immediately start expanding? Had it existed in a hot dense state for eternity until something changed? Does it go through a Bang/Crunch/Bang cycle or a Bang/Bang/Bang evolution? Is there a megaverse where universes are spawned all the time? Is there a being that initiated the universe? We don't know, and neither do you.

It's done by magic.

No matter how the universe came to be the question remains, "how did the stuff that makes up the universe come to be?"

The structures in the universe, such as galaxies, are just the result of physical forces. You can see similar organized structures created by natural forces on a daily walk, when the swirling wind creates distinct piles of leaves in certain patterns.

(July 2, 2014 at 1:55 am)snowtracks Wrote:

(June 29, 2014 at 11:01 am)Bucky Ball Wrote:

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Are people still believing in this ancient shit nowadays ?
"Through the mediation of Jesus Christ, I offer spiritual sacrifices that please God."

We know this universe exists. The probability that only one popped out of whatever conditions existed, seems unlikely, but we await EVIDENCE for others. One possible confirmation of others proposed was data seen in
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/
http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.1964
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/201...ull-t.html

Turns out it was premature, but that's how science works.

---

inflationary multiverse models still require a beginning.

Hawking's friend Roger Penrose wrote a book called "Cycles of Time".
You should read it.
Even *if* a beginning is "required", it in no way leads to your gods.
1. A god that is "required" is not Master of Reality, but subject to it.
2. As Sean Carroll pointed out in his debate with Little Billy Craig, the phrase "created" or "caused" in a non-temporal environment is meaningless.

(October 10, 2013 at 10:11 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.

The current “theory” is that the universe came into being from some explosion called the Big Bang. The standard Big Bang theory does not match smoothness of the cosmic background radiation. So the theory of Inflation was added to the standard Big Bang. That is the latest conjecture of modern science.

Now there are many problems with this “answer” to the origin of the universe. If nothing existed before the Big Bang, then the Big Bang violates a number of principle and laws of science. It violates conservation of mass-energy. The energy went from nothing to all the energy of the universe. It violates cause and effect. Nothing never just explodes and becomes something. It violates all observations, since nothing never just explodes into something. It also does not explain the origin of the laws of nature or why there is even order in the universe.

If something existed before the Big Bang, then the origin question is not answered at all. If the universe always existed, then the 2nd law of thermodynamics says that all order disappeared an infinite time ago. But that is not the case. Also there is still no explanation of the origin of the laws of nature or why there is even order in the universe.

Does your religion have the answer?

(July 2, 2014 at 1:55 am)snowtracks Wrote:

(June 29, 2014 at 11:01 am)Bucky Ball Wrote:

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Are people still believing in this ancient shit nowadays ?
"Through the mediation of Jesus Christ, I offer spiritual sacrifices that please God."

We know this universe exists. The probability that only one popped out of whatever conditions existed, seems unlikely, but we await EVIDENCE for others. One possible confirmation of others proposed was data seen in
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/
http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.1964
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/201...ull-t.html

Turns out it was premature, but that's how science works.

---

inflationary multiverse models still require a beginning.

There are a couple of mind boggling possibilities: (1) matter and energy have always existed; or (2) matter and energy suddenly sprung into existence. Both possibilities are hard to grasp if you really think about them.

But solving the problem by saying god did it just adds another mind boggling couple of possibilities: (1) god always existed; or (2) god suddenly sprung into existence. This problem is even more difficult than the one it intends to answer, because god as a fully formed creator must be much more complex that simple matter and energy.

Nor does answering any question with god did it, give us any useful information about how the universe or multi-verse works. Thus saddling us with unlikely complication to no purpose. Occams Razors suggests that we therefore leave god out of the equation.

(July 3, 2014 at 9:34 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(July 2, 2014 at 1:55 am)snowtracks Wrote: inflationary multiverse models still require a beginning.

There are a couple of mind boggling possibilities: (1) matter and energy have always existed; or (2) matter and energy suddenly sprung into existence. Both possibilities are hard to grasp if you really think about them.

But solving the problem by saying god did it just adds another mind boggling couple of possibilities: (1) god always existed; or (2) god suddenly sprung into existence. This problem is even more difficult than the one it intends to answer, because god as a fully formed creator must be much more complex that simple matter and energy.

Nor does answering any question with god did it, give us any useful information about how the universe or multi-verse works. Thus saddling us with unlikely complication to no purpose. Occams Razors suggests that we therefore leave god out of the equation.

Agree, but both are temporal concepts. Human brains are unable to think in terms without (space)time. What that is or might be is the same as flatlanders trying imagine 3 dimensions.
I'm not always a fan of "the razor". Some thing are very complex, They are as complex as they are. But if the "model" has no need for a god, and there is no evidence for one, then I agree, why introduce it.

(July 3, 2014 at 7:49 pm)Blackout Wrote:

(October 10, 2013 at 10:11 am)SavedByGraceThruFaith Wrote: Where did the universe come from? Atheistic origin science has no answer.

The current “theory” is that the universe came into being from some explosion called the Big Bang. The standard Big Bang theory does not match smoothness of the cosmic background radiation. So the theory of Inflation was added to the standard Big Bang. That is the latest conjecture of modern science.

Now there are many problems with this “answer” to the origin of the universe. If nothing existed before the Big Bang, then the Big Bang violates a number of principle and laws of science. It violates conservation of mass-energy. The energy went from nothing to all the energy of the universe. It violates cause and effect. Nothing never just explodes and becomes something. It violates all observations, since nothing never just explodes into something. It also does not explain the origin of the laws of nature or why there is even order in the universe.

If something existed before the Big Bang, then the origin question is not answered at all. If the universe always existed, then the 2nd law of thermodynamics says that all order disappeared an infinite time ago. But that is not the case. Also there is still no explanation of the origin of the laws of nature or why there is even order in the universe.

Does your religion have the answer?

matter, energy, space, time, laws of physics haven't always existed.

"three British astrophysicists, Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose turned their attention to the Theory of Relativity and its implications regarding our notions of time. In 1968 and 1970, they published papers in which they extended Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to include measurements of time and space. According to their calculations, time and space had a finite beginning that corresponded to the origin of matter and energy"
http://www.big-bang-theory.com/

this would agree with the hebrew verb used in genesis 1 and 2 describing the universe and the human spirit as originating from something that previously didn't exist, ex nihilo. lawrence krauss agrees with 'nothing' in his book 'a universe from nothing'.