This video by ZJemptv says it so well, I don't know what else to add.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsgeXubzhf4

I can add something. He's taking the bible too literally.

(May 12, 2010 at 12:36 am)AngelThMan Wrote: I can add something. He's taking the bible too literally.

Even if the lesson's examples in the bible are not literally true, would it make the morals of the lessons themselves good ones?

He is neither moral nor immoral but unmoral. Hitchens has a good view of this point.

(May 12, 2010 at 12:42 am)Scented Nectar Wrote:

(May 12, 2010 at 12:36 am)AngelThMan Wrote: I can add something. He's taking the bible too literally.

Even if the lesson's examples in the bible are not literally true, would it make the morals of the lessons themselves good ones?

Those lessons are there to teach certain values. Each individual passage has its meaning, and is there for a reason. To try to break it down and question whether God is moral or not is immaterial, as we are not God ourselves and cannot act as him. Christians are taught to be good people, and not amoral.

The Bible is immoral by todays standards and then by extention so is Judeo/Islamic/Christianity which is based on such primitive nonsense.

The Old testament was and is an first attempt at mankind really trying to figure out what God wants from us. Our rules and ideas were wrong and we got a translator, Jesus. He tried spreading the message of how to interpret those rules, then he died so we could have a fresh start. He left us with an internal translator, the holy spirit, that we can use to gauge our steps along the path. I'm not dismissing the OT. It simply was a primitive understanding, that's been corrected. I don't see how someone, who wasn't berrated by theese hell fire and brimstone evangelicals, and has read the bible (yes, even literally) and sums up the entire book as God is an amoral asshole, as so many atheists do. Please, I'm trying to see the other perspective, share please.


If you think being left out in the dark because you refused to come into the light is a punishment or is anyone's problem but yours, you're in denial of your personal accountability for your actions.
If you think self-sacrifice with a grander purpose other than just to die, isn't commendable, then what value do all the people who've died for your rights in wars have?
What exactly is primitive about doing unto others what you would have done to you and don't be afraid of a little self-sacrifice?

(May 12, 2010 at 2:45 am)AngelThMan Wrote: Those lessons are there to teach certain values. Each individual passage has its meaning, and is there for a reason. To try to break it down and question whether God is moral or not is immaterial, as we are not God ourselves and cannot act as him. Christians are taught to be good people, and not amoral.

Well, Christians are taught to be "good" people with "good" being defined by a church that, for example, rapes little children. As soon as one starts thinking(!) about ethical values it is very difficult to find anything positive in any religion.
The point is that, by today's standards, the values promoted in the bible are not acceptable and - at least - have to be revised. This is even done by the churches themselves: Even the vatican changes its interpretation of the bible (albeit very slowly).
It has been proven by numerous philosophers that ethics are NOT provided by religion but by society itself. (It has EVOLVED to what we have now, and I am confident this is not the end.) This also readily explains why atheists are not more evil than their theist counterparts (in most cases even less).

Stop looking for morals in some old book - look at reality!

He starts of the video saying that he is setting out clear examples using the most extreme examples, and then totally fails to demonstrate any discerable bias one way or another.

God is just. This is what the authors of that bible summised from what was written, as do genrations of Jews since. How can you be that ignorant that you think you can state the opposite from what is logically presented? Ah I know.... just call yourself an atheist and look for any wild justification by any extremist nut job that you'd normally want clearly labelled and take on those views without any thought of your own. Way to go. This is your room and those are your straight jackets hanging up over there. I hope you enjoy your stay in hotel irrationality.

(May 12, 2010 at 7:10 am)tackattack Wrote: If you think self-sacrifice with a grander purpose other than just to die, isn't commendable, then what value do all the people who've died for your rights in wars have?

Self sacrifice?!?(IF it were true) yea.. about that .. what zactly did he sacrifice? umm life..NOPE ..he had to put up with a little pain to become a god..how in the hell is that a sacrifice.... Its absurd that the leader of your blood cult had to come to earth and sacrifice himself to himself to create a loophole for his own damn rule.... This does not take away one iota of the sacrifice others put forth in the name of freedom.. They actually had somthing to give up and in alot of cases did.